I didn't think I would ever have to say this..... - Montana Owners Club

Glenn and Lorraine · 09-24-2007, 07:41 AM

but after having 3 out of 4 Missions fail me I have definitely changed my attitude toward Mission Tires.

It all started back on September 5th while on I-80 in Iowa. Lorraine and I both heard a POP. I immediately looked into my mirrors to see just what was happening. Seeing nothing I continued about 20 miles to the next exit. We pulled into a restaurant for lunch. When we exited the restaurant I noticed Monty's right rear tire was 3/4's flat. I called for road service. By the time they arrived the tire was totally flat. While the tire tech was placing the jack he noticed my left rear tire was separating.
I had the tech mount the spare on the right and limped into his shop 9 miles further up I-80 where I purchased 2 new tires for the rear axle and leaving the 2 Mission's on the front axle.
The next day we were in the Goshen area and for the most part the Monty set idle for over 2 weeks. On Sunday at 7AM we left the Fairgrounds. By 3:30 we were just south of Louisville KY where we spent Sunday night. I was all set to pull out when I did my last walk around and found my right FRONT tire was now flat. That was the last straw for these Mission's. I had road service come into the CG and put my spare on. I than drove back to Louisville and replaced the Mission's.
We were so very fortunate that no tire went flat while on the Interstate as it probably would have torn up the side of the trailer or worse.

I am and always have been a firm believer that most all tires are good tires and blamed a lot of the reported failures on owner neglect or just a coincidence and I still feel that way EXCEPT in the case of Mission's. I will never ever have another Mission tire on any of my vehicles. Again, I spent WAY to many years in the tire business to believe them all just coincidence.

OH YEAH, Every tire that failed was due to manufacturer's defect and had nothing to do with any type of road hazard and NO I did not and will not ask for any warranty adjustments from Mission as they will only dump more Mission's on me and that ain't going to happen.

To the folks at Keystone...I have spent way to many years in the tire business to not recognize a tire problem from a particular manufacturer. When I was in the business, If I was having continuous tire problems from any one manufacturer I would immediately be looking for another brand.
YES, maybe Mission does stand behind their warranty. I don't even care to find out if that is so or not. Keystone's problem is how these tire failures effect the great name of Montana.
I would seriously suggest that the higher ups at Montana and Keystone take a good close look at what you are placing between our Monty's and the ground. These are not just a loose screw or nut that needs tightening or an out of whack slide that needs adjustment, these are some serious safety issues that should be addressed ASAP.
DON'T let some Chinese Tire company drag Montana or any of the Keystone products down in the mud.
I feel everyone on this forum would not mind paying a few extra bucks on tires knowing we are getting something better than these Mission's for our money and more importantly our safety.

bncinwv · 09-24-2007, 08:10 AM

What was your choice for replacement, Glenn?? I have the missions also and so far no problems, but I believe they will be replaced before any long trips next year. I will keep them for the Thanksgiving trip to Destin so I hope the Chinese tire makers at least took enough care with them to bless me for a couple thousand more miles. Tires currently have about 3-4000 miles on them with no problems to date......but that seems to not be a reliable indicator. Like you, it is beyond me why Keystone doesn't recall the tires or at least give us credit on an alternative tire if we are under warranty.....they HAVE to know there is a problem!!!!
Bingo

Glenn and Lorraine · 09-24-2007, 10:18 AM

My option was to call Mission at 800-227-8925 or Mission claims at 800-937-9433.
Knowing tire manufacturers policies I decide to call no one. In all probability and as I have heard, they will be willing to replace all 5 tires for 5 new tires. Getting 5 new Missions only starts the process all over again.
Look at your tire very carefully for any signs of ply separation. Ply separation can show as a bubble anywhere on the sidewalls or tread area. This bubble can be as small as a quarter or as large as a soft ball. It can barely protrude or significantly protrude. 2 of my tires had these bubbles on the inside sidewall making them very hard to see. The 3rd tire had tread separation. Tread separation is where the plies under the tread are separating and will eventually travel the entire circumference of the tire before coming of. The completely round "road gators" we often see on the road are from ply separation and are NOT necessarily recaps but new tires. If you have ever seen a tire where the tread is completely gone and the sidewalls remain this is the result of tread separation. And YES, I have seen folks continue down the hiway after the tread was completely gone. I had become a bit lacks on sight checking my tires when we stopped for fuel or a bite to eat but no more.

If you are ever in doubt of anything unusual looking on your tires I strongly suggest taking you rig to a reputable tire dealer. By reputable I am NOT talking about the likes of Wal*Mart, Sam's Club, Sears, or that local service station, etc. I am talking about the tire shop that specializes in TIRES. Stores such as Goodyear, Firestone, BFG, General, Michelin, NTW, NTB, Tire Kingdom and many others. Most all of these type TIRE STORES employee tire specialists and not some yokel that at his last job, just last week, was asking "Do you want fries with that?"

BirdingRVer · 09-24-2007, 10:43 AM

Glenn,

You left Bingo's question unanswered:
"What was your choice for replacement, ??"

Grant

Glenn and Lorraine · 09-24-2007, 11:07 AM

OOPS...
As I am on the road and don't have time to search around and the ST's are not that easily found I had to settle for any tire not made in China. The first pair are manufactured by Firestone and to be honest I'm not sure of today's tires but they are NOT made by any tire company connected to Mission.

As soon as I get a few more thousand more miles on my TV's Michelins I will be buying 4 new tires for the TV and put the used Michelins on the Monty.

LonnieB · 09-24-2007, 03:38 PM

Glenn, sorry to hear of your tire troubles, and glad nothing was hurt too bad, especially you and your wife.

I intended to replace mine before we took the Labor Day trip, but time was running short so I took a chance on the Missions. Everything turned out fine, but after reading your post I have decided the tires will be replaced before the next trip.

I do agree with you 100%, Keystone needs to take a long hard look at the rubber that meets the road, and adjust accordingly.

bncinwv · 09-24-2007, 04:09 PM

Glenn,
Next question, do you have the mileage logged on the missions?? I guess I am trying to justify risking???? the trip to Florida. A 15 hour run that I plan on doing without overnighting. The rig is relatively new (March), and the tires are maintained properly (if there is such a thing as properly maintaining an obviously defective brand of tires). I have only had one extended pull (10 hours) other than 1-3 hour local trips. Also did you replace them with ST's?? I have read good reviews on the Michelins but am unsure if they are 80 psi tires. We need some tire experts to chime in again, I really don't feel like replacing the rims also but if it has to be it has to be!! Kerry posted some info on Goodyears that was interesting, but I think they were 110 psi tires. Thanks for any and all input.
Bingo

richfaa · 09-24-2007, 04:32 PM

We had the missions on our 3400 for 15 months and logged about 15K miles. None of them failed , they showed no sign of defect and the wear was even...HOW SOME EVER..We did replace the Missions with made in USA tires last month.. Cooper LT's. made here in Ohio.. We are also replacing our OEM shackles with the heavy duty wet shackle kit. We figure about 15K miles on OEM equipment was enough. Although we had no problem with the Missions the high failure rate on this forum and other forums tell me that there is trouble in river city..

Bill DeMeulle · 09-25-2007, 07:01 AM

I also had problems with Mission tires one blew out in New Mexico causing over $2000 damage to the Monty. Manufacturers defect, filed a claim with my insurance co. and they agreed it was defective however Mission would not accept responsibility and the insurance company would not sue due to attorney costs. I had another blowout 3 months later with no other damage to the Monty, so I replaced all 5 tires with Michlins, and no further problems.

Glenn and Lorraine · 09-25-2007, 10:38 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by bncinwv

Glenn,
Next question, do you have the mileage logged on the missions?? I guess I am trying to justify risking???? the trip to Florida. A 15 hour run that I plan on doing without overnighting. The rig is relatively new (March), and the tires are maintained properly (if there is such a thing as properly maintaining an obviously defective brand of tires). I have only had one extended pull (10 hours) other than 1-3 hour local trips. Also did you replace them with ST's?? I have read good reviews on the Michelins but am unsure if they are 80 psi tires. We need some tire experts to chime in again, I really don't feel like replacing the rims also but if it has to be it has to be!! Kerry posted some info on Goodyears that was interesting, but I think they were 110 psi tires. Thanks for any and all input.
Bingo

Mileage was from West Central Florida to Branson, MO to Nashville to Allentown Pa, to northern NY to northern Calif to Washington state to Indiana. That's well over 8,000 total miles on the Monty alone.

Yes. I did replace them with ST's but hopefully next spring I will be replacing them with LTs.

scattershot · 09-25-2007, 12:59 PM

I had a bunch of problems with Chinese tires (another brand) on my previous 5er, so I didn't want to take a chance with the Missions, and now I'm glad I didn't. I drove Monty home from Tucson to Denver, and replaced them with LT tires from Goodrich. Better safe than sorry. IMO, Chinese tires are junk, and shouldn't be allowed in the country.

sreigle · 09-25-2007, 01:49 PM

This is only the second, maybe the third, report of problems with Missions that I've seen on this forum or anywhere. Still, that's just enough to make me take pause. And to be sure to keep an eye on ours. We've put 10,000 or so on ours (the log is out in the truck) without a hitch. But I'll keep a close eye on them.

Several here recall I've had many, many problems with the Goodyear Marathon tires and I'll never again have those tires on any of our trailers. I even posted pictures.

So, just what brand IS a good brand for these trailers? I know there are lots of opinions but I don't think there's any real statistical information out there. I guess we're on our own to make a decision about that. That's not a comforting thought.

Glenn and Lorraine · 09-25-2007, 03:16 PM

You make a good point Steve, is there a tire out there that will do the job? I can't answer that but I will be looking at Michelin's in the LT size that will carry the load. At least with the Michelin's I shouldn't have any problem finding a dealer where ever I travel. Having LTs rather than STs, I should also have an easier time finding the tires in stock.
In the first incidence the dealer only had 2 STs in stock. Thankfully he did or I was up that proverbial creek without a paddle. In the 2nd incidence I had to contact 3 dealers in order to find the other 2. Both dealers carry HUGE inventories of all sizes including LTs but not the STs. No more STs on my Montys.

sreigle · 09-26-2007, 03:53 AM

When we swapped out the Goodyears on our prior Montana I also went to an LT tire for the same reasons. Too hard to find a replacement ST tire. Keystone for a year or so put LT tires on the Montanas so I don't think it's a problem.

On that prior Montana I went with a BF Goodrich Commercial T/A tire because of our excellent experience with BFG tires (70k miles) on our 2005 Ford F250. I only put about 7,000 miles on them before trading the Montana but they were looking very good at that point.

I'll probably keep these Missions until I see signs of problems but if I replace all four I'll not go with Mission.

One word for those not aware, if you replace a tire with a different brand and/or tread pattern, replace both tires on that axle. I found out the hard way that having different tires on opposite ends of an axle can throw these axles out of alignment. Been there. Same story for different load ranges on an axle.

jka · 09-26-2007, 05:41 AM

Glenn and Lorraine.......Well said. As a person that has "many years in the tire business" your words should carry some weight with Montana.

I can't understand why Montana would let a thing like tire and shackle problems go on like they have. These are clearly safety issues and it is good noone has been hurt as a result of these problems. They have haunted them for a good while and I have to believe they know they have a problem. Montana....put some reliable tires on your coaches and be done with it.

The competion between RV manufacturers (and new RV companies opening) has been heating up recently. Personally I prefer Montana but have been looking at other brands lately. There is a company that has been around for about 4 years and after much resesarch I feel have a very comparible product to Montana at a better price point. The people at Montana I'm sure have taken notice of this company. Once people go to a different manufacturer if they have had a good experience with that product it will be hard to get them back in the Montana camp.

Montana.....You build a beautifull coach....Fix these issues and don't risk losing your faithfull buyers.

Back to Glenn and Lorraine.

You have had alot of patience with these problems and if Montana is listening I feel owe you at the least a phone call. I have to say I have dealt directly with their custumer service dept. in the past and have been treated fairly.

Lets hope your post here Glenn and Lorrainne will open some eyes (wider) at Keystone.

richfaa · 09-26-2007, 07:17 AM

Surprisingly, and it Is hard to believe, it is possible that the RV manufacturers dos not know about some of these issues, Some at the rally will remember that Lippert did not know about the cable hanger breaking problem. The head of Lippert, Jason Lippert along with Abram and a couple of Lipperts reps were under campers looking at broken cable hangers proclaiming that they knew nothing about the problem..and..they were very convincing. It is possible ?A can of worms has been opened on the shackle issue..perhaps it will be a learning experience and bring some good.

Glenn and Lorraine · 09-26-2007, 02:35 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by jka

Glenn and Lorraine.......Well said. As a person that has "many years in the tire business" your words should carry some weight with Montana.

I can't understand why Montana would let a thing like tire and shackle problems go on like they have. These are clearly safety issues and it is good noone has been hurt as a result of these problems. They have haunted them for a good while and I have to believe they know they have a problem. Montana....put some reliable tires on your coaches and be done with it.

The competion between RV manufacturers (and new RV companies opening) has been heating up recently. Personally I prefer Montana but have been looking at other brands lately. There is a company that has been around for about 4 years and after much resesarch I feel have a very comparible product to Montana at a better price point. The people at Montana I'm sure have taken notice of this company. Once people go to a different manufacturer if they have had a good experience with that product it will be hard to get them back in the Montana camp.

Montana.....You build a beautifull coach....Fix these issues and don't risk losing your faithfull buyers.

Back to Glenn and Lorraine.

You have had alot of patience with these problems and if Montana is listening I feel owe you at the least a phone call. I have to say I have dealt directly with their custumer service dept. in the past and have been treated fairly.

Lets hope your post here Glenn and Lorrainne will open some eyes (wider) at Keystone.

First of all let me make one thing clear to Keystone. I am not looking for any contact with anyone at Montana or Keystone not even a phone call. I made this post knowing full well that the Montana and Keystone folks do read this forum on a regular basis but do not respond and that is fully understandable. The purpose of this post was to let Keystone know my situation but more importantly my MOC family. I killed 2 birds with one stone.
In Keystone's defense, they are at the mercy of their suppliers. There is no way to tell a defective tire or poorly manufactured tire from any of the thousand of others. Just because they are made in China has no bearing on quality or anything else. When the Japanese first sent Japanese tires to the US we had the same reaction but there are many many brands of Japanese tires on the US market today that will stand it's ground to any American made tire.
Possibly part of the reason Keystone hasn't done anything is the possibility that they are not aware of the problem. "How can they not know?" you ask. Very simple, Keystone nor Montana warrant these tires. When we call into Keystone with a tire problem we are told to contact Mission at the number I posted previously. Now if Mission takes care of the problem, which they often do, the customer is satisfied and Keystone knows nothing. If we have a repeat problem we again contact Mission. Keystone is still in the dark.
In my case, I made them aware about my first 2 tires while at the rally and when I had the 3rd tire fail I emailed an acquaintance at Keystone and informed him much in the same way I posted it here.

sailer · 09-26-2007, 03:32 PM

Glenn ,, i think montana has to start looking harder at the frame of there unit on down and less time picking out a counter top ,, there has been so many axel problems , brake problems that are full of grease as other axels are empty , this was on mine with 5000 miles no brakes now bad tires , i feal they have to ask us more often about the frame on down , this would include the plastic to hold the wires on the slides that breaks on a moments notice , i bought a montana as a quality product , not how cheep they can build it , if you want cheep buy some other brand as there are cheep out there also come on montana look below the frame and less on a counter top, the counter top wont go dn the rd but the tires and axels do ,, its easer to keep a customer than trying to steal 1 from someone else john and i hope keystone reads this and thinks a long time about it and not just deleat

SlickWillie · 09-26-2007, 03:41 PM

Question for you, Glenn. I am assuming your truck has the OEM size; 245 75R X 16 tires. Will these mount up OK on the RV rims? Seems I read somewhere about that particular size being for wider rim widths. Any problems? Seems the steel wheels on the Mountaineer are 6" width, but I could be wrong. Are the OEM aluminum on the Montana's wider? Just curious, as I will be needing new tires on the TV in a few months. The Missions have always made me nervous. I feel the Chinese cut too many corners to keep the price on their products down. I am no tire expert by any stretch of the imagination.

jka · 09-27-2007, 02:49 AM

Glenn.....Sorry ....I didn't mean to mislead Keystone about any of your intentions. The phone call was my idea and I shouldn't have suggested that they contact you in any way.

Again....Sorry for that.

To Keystone........

Do you not get any feedback from your dealers on tire issues?
How many people are refered to Mission by your custumer service dept. to rectify their tire problems?
Do you monitor this and other RV forums, and if you do, have you noticed there has been much talk about Mission tires?
When your representatives are out on the road at RV shows do they not come back with information on this?
I have to think you have a fairly good idea that these tires are a problem.

Our Montana is equiped with Tacoma tires and to date we have not had any problems. Now we are in the market for a new Montana and I really don't like the idea it will ride on Mission tires. I don't think anyone who purchases a new trailer should have to go out and immediately buy new tires to feel safe. You don't hear this much talk about other components in your trailers others than shackles and axles. You fixed the axle problem, why not fix the tire problem? It would be nice to see you put some dependable tires on your trailers.

Thanks for listening.

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