TIRE CHAINS ON TRAILER

[jackel1959]

Okay, here is the question of the day....when required to put tire chains on the trailer (which I will avoid if possible) which axle should I put them on the front, rear or does it matter?

Jack

[bsmeaton]

Oh my gosh - have you been required to do that Jack!

I just came over a snowy pass Sunday and saw a semi chaining up pulling a 5 axle house trailer. I should have stayed around to see if he did the house trailer as well.

I guess it makes sense, but gets me jittery all over! If I was standing in the snow and had to guess, I would say the back axle as mine was a little high in the nose, but I really have no idea. I'd be curious what others say.

[jackel1959]

I haven't had to do it yet but we are going to California for Christmas and will be going over the Ashland summit and through the Siskyous. After reviewing the state laws regarding chains, I figured I should be prepared. I know from weighing the rig recently that the rear axle is about 175 lbs. heavier than the front.

[LonnieB]

jackel, I don't know if there is actually a protocol for chaining the trailer. IF I had to do it, I would chain the rear axle, simply because chains sometimes come loose, and I wouldn't want them coming loose from the front, and tangling up in the rear. JMO, and someone else may know better. This will be an interesting topic I think.

[mtnhntr]

Wow, this is a new one on me. I never new there was a requirement to chain up a trailer. Makes sense though - for stopping. Do all the states require this? And when the sign says chains required does that mean TV and 5er?. In my state (WA), if you have a 4x4 I think that you do not have to put chains on it normally, but you have to carry them in case the State Patrol deems the conditions bad enough. Of course I could be and probably am wrong since there are probably some other rules related to your overall combined weight. Something to look into. Like Jack, we plan to cross the Siskyous in January. Does this mean you need to carry a set of chains for the 5er?
Ken

[Glenn and Lorraine]

Man I am glad I am in Florida in the winter because there is no way I'd be putting chains on my TV tires and surely not on my Monty. No Way In HE%%. If that was the only way I could go than I guess I wouldn't be going or I'd park the Monty and stay in motels and if I had to put chains on my 4X4 I guess I'd take other transportation or stay home. Ain't used chains since back in my Army days in Korea.

But I would have to agree with Lonnie and put them on the rear axle for the very reason he ststed

[Mrs. CountryGuy]

I'm with Glenn on this one, I am not going to be running with Tana in snow or ice. PERIOD! We even delay our departure from Tipton if there has been snow in last 24 hours, if at all possible, cause we don't want to run in wet salty slush!

If we got into some situation where chains were required, we would park it, and honker down.

We have a standing rule, NO PULLING in frozen slop! If it starts to do the freezing rain, we find next exit and pull off. Running on ice is, well, appologies up front if you have done this, STUPID!!!!

I guess if you feel comfy running in snow and ice, ya better buy some chains. We don't have any. Hope we are smart enough to never need them.

Again, sorry to those I have just insulted. Call us chicken, call us whatever, but we don't want to be put anywhere NEAR those kinds of situations. That is why we watch the weather, and we don't leave unless we have 3 to 3.5 DRY days in a row over the driving route we are taking. Our lives are worth more than that. If we have to wait out storm after storm, then so be it.

This reminds me of Ormee & Ginette and their encounter with black ice last November in Pennsylvania. I will let them tell ya the story sometime, but if Al and I were not convinced about bad weather driving before, that would have done it for us! By the way, Ormee is one heck of a driver!!

[richfaa]

Chains....Chains... What a frightening thought..Who would put them on???I can't imagine pulling a camper in conditions that would require ...chains... Like Mr & Mrs Country guy we will not leave Northern Ohio to head SW till we have a 3 or 4 day window of good weather and..If a storm blows up we coiled up in a safe place....Chains...ye gads..

[ols1932]

I agree with Rich. If (and that's a big IF) there was a requirement for chains on the trailer (non-driving wheels), I'd be staying where I was or go the other way. For full timers, there is no need to have to go THAT day. Most of us have flexible schedules and can sit out any storm or bad road conditions. To me, it doesn't make any sense to put chains on the trailer. When we were farming, we never put chains on the vehicles being towed, however we did have them on the towing vehicle. Drove through a lot of snow and bad roads.

Orv

[bsmeaton]

I've never tried towing on the ice or snow packed roads, and I've extended stays to wait for the roads to thaw in a late fall snow. It would scare the life out of me, which would probably make it worse. Be a good time to check your marker lights as the 5er swung around to meet your front bumper I guess .

I've always worried about getting trapped though. It can be snowing on the passes here in CO in the middle of summer, and you never hear about that on the news or weather channel. It's just assumed weather can be bad above 9,000 ft. I've come out of the Eisenhower tunnel on I-70 with sunshine on one side and black ice on the other (no trailer).

Would the cable type chains make more sense Jack. I've also seen some PVC type cleats that look they wouldn't beat the heck out of your rig too bad if they came loose.

[jackel1959]

Brad,
I have been doing some research on line this morning and although I don't have all the answers....yet...I did find out that cables and other types of traction devices are not allowed (at least here in WA). I hope to have many more answers and information later today and I will post whatever I am able to find for all.

Jack

[jackel1959]

Everybody,
Thanks for all your feedback and no offense was taken. The forum is designed for open and honest exchange of ideas, right? Now, having said that, here is some interesting information on the subject that is worth sharing. While I was not able to find a definitive answer to my original question regarding which axle of the trailer to place chains on, after reviewing tire chain placement for big rigs and Lonnie’s response, it seems like the rear axle makes the most sense. That is just my opinion. I only researched the states I will be traveling through this winter (WA, OR, CA).

The Washington State Trooper I spoke with today said that although WA does not have a law that pertains specifically to vehicles with travel trailers that we would fall under the Commercial Vehicle requirement because the combined weight would exceed 10,000 lbs.

Oregon and California both have laws that specifically require travel trailers to utilize chains under certain conditions. Below I have included three additional links that discuss the requirements for each of the states I researched.


We always check weather and road conditions before we hit the road and plan accordingly, but occasionally stuff happens. Here is a good link that is easy to navigate to check road conditions and weather forecasts for all 50 states: http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/trafficinfo/#weat . While I don’t necessarily agree with it being “STUPID” to drive in severe winter conditions, I certainly don’t advocate towing in conditions like this if it can be avoided. And, although I have never professed to be the “sharpest knife in the drawer”, I have learned to never say “NEVER” and “ALWAYS”, and to be prepared because if Murphy’s Law can creep into the equation, it probably will.

Jack

http://www.wsp.wa.gov/traveler/chainbw.pdf
http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/roadinfo/ChainRequire04.pdf
http://www.oregon.gov/OSP/PATROL/saf..._driving.shtml

[Mike-n-Jen]

Thank you for sharing this with us jackel1959.

Winter driving is a real posability for myself also. Fulltiming in Idaho with my new job requiring me to move around from time to time will be a fact of life. I choose to let my preperations define my options rather than just being stuck.

My opinion would be to chain the rear axle regardless of weight. A longer vehicle is more stable, chaining the rear axle would lengthen the useable traction of the rig.

Thanks again for the links!
Mike

[Ormee and Ginette]

Well, Carol it was an experience that we do not want to repeat...

Last year we left Pincourt, Quebec on the 16 November and proceeded to the I-81 and to the junction of the I-90 which leads west from Syracuse N.Y... I normally would not have taken this route any later in the year due to the lake effects along Lake Ontario and Lake Erie... But since we left in mid November we thought the change of route scenery would be nice, believe me there is no scenery along route I-90 that is worth the price of the toll road... Our first night was to stay at the Flying-J in Corfu N.Y just east of Buffalo, when we arrived it had just started to snow, but by morning the sun was out and there was at least 12 inches of snow in the Flying-J parking area which had been cleared overnite...

Our next stop was to be another Flying-J just around Columbus Ohio, never made it there, spent 3 hours in traffic due to a bad accident just west of Buffalo, by the time we reached the accident scene area it was all cleared up... We now come upon a short section of Pennsylvannia state which borders New York and Ohio... There is a sign warning of a bridge so of course everybodt slows down for this including myself down to about 25 to 30 mph, cross the bridge no big problem it was salted but the slight incline on the other side was not and I had to give a little pedal to get up to the top... I am now going about the same speed as before and I am in the center lane as I look into my mirror I can see this BIG SKY MONTANA trying to pass me on the left that is when I yelled OH S***T this is our RV... It was trying to do a Jack knife also this forced the tow vehicle to head toward the ditch... Coming from an area in Canada where snow is second nature to us I was able to straighten out the Truck and the Big Sky... No one was hurt and lucky no one was on my left side when the RV started to Jack Knife and also I was travelling at a slow enough speed where I was able to control the spin... As I said we never made it to Columbus but decided to stay at the Flying-J just west of Cincinnati...

When we opened the door to the RV the sudden whip lash that the RV got during the partial Jack knife sent everything that was not tied down flying... The chesterfield was against the kitchen and the fridge, the computer printer was dangling by it power cord from the computer cupboard... All our CDs and DVDs were ripped out of the jackets and scattered from the front door to the rear window... The big oak kitchen table (not the one that came with the unit) was upside down against the kitchen sink area, to say the least the RV was a mess, all the dishes and glasses were out of the cupboard and on the floor several Correlle dishes broke along with some wine glasses...

I am not sure if chains would have helped, chains can come off and the resulting damage is terrible and expensive also your speed must be greatly reduced due to the centrifugal force on the chains...

[Ozzie]

Wow...now that is a story...if that didn't put the fear of God into a reader I don't know what would.
Us being native to Minnesota, winter driving skills come with the territory. I've pulled a 6-7000 lb construction trailer for enough years to gain a lot of respect for the snow and ice. Some of those big hills just say no.
Our Montana pulls like a dream, but the mountains and snow would not be an option for me. I'd get out of town first.

[bsmeaton]

Thanks Jack for the indepth research! At least know I'll know what I'm up against as far as the law. From what I read, I would even need to chain the truck regardless of 4X4.

I guess I would have to say I probably won't get chains in preparation. I just don't want to get in that situation, and will park it or turn around if necessary.

Brad

[Tom Gina 06]

Wow interesting topic, funny thing I purchased a set of chains for my TV last December account I might be driving across some passes that might require chaining up. Never used them because I ended up in Texas last Winter. Oh yea.... anyone need an extra 50 pounds might work as plant hangers? LOL Anyway the thing that lead me to picking up a set was memories of driving truck cross country years ago. Having grown up driving on snow I feel comfortable towing for the most part. The thing is when you are driving a higher profile vehicle the wind is what you have to worry about. I have had a few very bad experiences with ice and wind, no loss or wreck, other than my shorts...

The thing I remember most about driving the mountains is the East side of the mountain and West side can be very different in weather conditions. Dry on the East side, snow on top, and ice down the West side with windy conditions somewhere in there or vise versa. This is the reason that chain conditions can exist. It is not only for traction but braking control as well. I have even been in situations where I have chained the steering axle, drivers, and trailer thus having total control in icey conditions. The trailer chains are for keeping it in check and following the TV rather than beating you to the bottom. Using the chained (rear most) trailer brake seperate from the TV can help keep it all going straight. Kind of like being on a leash. This is not a haul a$$ situation with chains you drive very slow & controlled thinking safety all the time.

The reason that cables are not legal in most states is because the ice and snow builds up in them making them ineffective. Which usually means that they are the first to the bottom totally out of control. Thing is they are lighter and easier to use, so some people try to get away with using them

If I had my choice of driving on snow or ice it would be deep snow account better traction and control. Driving on snow and ice requires much more concentration (white knuckles) and I'm very happy I choose not to do it anymore. I think if I did I would have to stop by the emergency room to have my fingers pryed off the steering wheel.

Besides nothing better than being down South, takin your lawn chair with a cooler full of beer, to end of a bridge and watchin the demo derby of new cars during an ice storm! Much more fun than that football game being played in a Nov. snow storm in Northern, MN with your butt frozen to a bleacher.

Sorry so long got carried away.......

Remember the.....................

[rrheik]

After reading the above sure am glad we are retired and following the warm weather. After spending last 5 years in Calgary, I don't miss the winter at all. My Canadian rving buddy just told me about the bad weather in Calgary last week, in which his cousin went off the road and hit a tree and died, which deeply saddened us and made us feel truly blessed to be in Tucson. My next door site neighbor just headed back to Calgary yesterday, pulling a 28' TT with a Expedition. We wished him God speed through the mountain passes. I know he was quite worried about the road conditions. He has chains, but I sure wouldn't be up to towing a rv anymore through the mountains in winter conditions. He is travelling with wife and two children, and has to be back to work Monday. So for all of those who must travel in winter, we wish you safe and well.

barb and bob

[richfaa]

Born and Raised in Western. Pa where there is only Uphill and downhill and winter is..well winter.Had to walk uphill to School...both ways..Family had business involving trucks.drove in my share of horrible weather..Know all about chains and jack knifing 18 wheelers...The mention of chains caused me to have flashbacks, putting on chains in a driving snow storm, taking out 25 yards of guardrail and a roadside stand when encountering black ice on a two lane highway and winding up in a frozen corn field..60K of truck/ trailer does not stop real good..and my Dad unflappable as ever..looking over at me and saying...nice stop Son..what is your plan for getting us out of here...We have a deep respect for Mother nature..we are not gonna fool with her//////

[CountryGuy]

Jack,

Tomorrow AM when my mind is fresh, I am going to look at all these great web sites you found. Thanks for posting them.

I would like to add to my tirade, that we are getting older and having watched Al's mom deteriorate, I hope that Al and I can be a bit more realistic about our skills and physical limitations. I have noticed for 10 years a degradation of my vision at night, for example. So, I try to not drive at night. That was something that really bothered me about driving to Texas last year. The first day out we drove about 405 miles, arriving after dark. Did not like that dark part at all. This year we hope to do things a bit different, and not have to drive after dark. Part of this is to accomodate our older eyes and the degradation of the night vision.

This is part of trying to be realistic, another part is not driving on winter roads with Tana in tow. Have to tell you, I have always considered myself a pretty good snow driver, but in the last 12 years, I have become reluctant to go out and drive in it if I don't have to. Not because of my skills, but because so many of the other drivers want to act as if it is a 75 degree sunny day, when in fact it is 15 degrees and icy and snowing blizzard conditions. The other drivers scare the beejeebies out of me!

The remark about stupid, was a bit out of line, and I have apologized and will do so again. I try to never say never and try to never say always, as you point out, that will come back to bite ya in the behind. OH, and Murphy, I think he sits in the back seat of Big Butt! He and I have become too good of friends over the years. Guess that is another reason we don't leave here without a good 3 to 4 day forecast of dry weather. And we check the forecasts frequently and that is why we say to each other, the first sign of bad weather and we get OFF the road. We are prepared to sit for a number of days if necessary. We have food and keep the propane full.

If you find you have to get home, cause you are working or family matters are pressing, you do what ya gotta do, but as several have stated here, we are retired and our lives are worth more than a few hours of running any where in these kinds of weather conditions. If you don't have chains, then you don't have to drive through nasty conditions. As with so many of our discussions, what works for me is not what works for you, and visa versa.

Good luck out there, and I think this has been a very interesting discussion and I promise tomorrow I will read all your web sites at length, cause one can always learn something.

Carol, from CountryGuy's ID