SOB manufacturers better?

[DQDick]

According to this mornings edition of the RV Travel Newsletter Forest River has been fined 35 million and Spartan Motors, Inc has been fined 9 million for failure to recall defective products in a timely manner. Those who think the grass is greener in the SOB community may not be casting a wide enough net for their information.

[jcurtis934]

IF I had a unit where the ladder blocked the exit, I would remove the ladder or a portion of it or I would move it to the other side myself. Just saying... John

[1retired06]

Many floorplans, like ours, have more than one emergency exit. If the window in question had the emergency latch, but keystone is saying the label is to be removed, then something does not smell right.

[Rondo]

We'll see what happens with the steps made by Hickory Springs on the 2013 Montana's. I have heard rumors that there has been another recall sent out on the steps! This would be a recall of a recall of a recall! Haven't seen the recall notice yet but I got this from a very reliable source! Time will tell!

[DQDick]

quote:Originally posted by jlb27537

Dick, have you read about Keystone building trailers with the rear emergency window in front of the rear ladder, making the emergency window impossible to actually use.

The recall that Keystone issued is hard to believe. Just remove the sticker that says Emergency Exit.....

It is not that they built trailers with the window on the wrong side, they built trailers with a sticker in the wrong place.

http://www.keystonerv.com/media/2238...ndow_-_web.pdf

Jim

Yup, it's one thing when they never camp in the rigs they design, but at least they could come in and look around.

[richfaa]

If you have toured the factories of several manufacturers you would note that they are all assembled the same. Same workforce, same vendors same work ethic.

As I have said many times the Montana is no better no worse than any other brand in the price range and if I thought there was a better brand in the price range out there I would have it.

[1retired06]

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

If you have toured the factories of several manufacturers you would note that they are all assembled the same. Same workforce, same vendors same work ethic.

As I have said many times the Montana is no better no worse than any other brand in the price range and if I thought there was a better brand in the price range out there I would have it.

Excellent point.

[TLightning]

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

... they are all assembled the same. Same workforce, same vendors same work ethic...

Agree.

[Dam Worker]

It is a shame that they can't at least get closer to the quality that cars and trucks are produced. I know they are not perfect but they don't usually come with bad paint jobs etc. the fit and finish on most car and trucks is quite good. RV's on the other hand are for the most part terrible. Their are a few brands of fifth-wheels that seem to stand out from the rest. They are a step above the level of my Montana 3160 in pretty much all areas of materials and fit and finish. They also are a step higher in price. I think most of us just want a decent quality built unit. They don't have to be exotic just preferably problem free. My unit is still at the dealership getting things fixed that should never of arrived in the shape it did. It seems to boil down to poor workmanship and extremely lax QC.
I still like the model that we picked out we just want it to actually work for us without all the issues.

Tom Marty

[DQDick]

I fully agree and is a big reason we aren't buying a new rig. We keep adding to and repairing this one, because we don't want to deal with the problems of a new one. If they want us back on a dealers lot, the complaints here are going to have to be reduced significantly.

[sambam]

I agree with Dick. Better the devil you know. I'd like to upgrade at some point, but this unit is familiar to me, it has (most of) the bugs worked out, and I still like the floorplan. I'd rather put my money into improvements than buy something new and start all over again trying to get things right.

[TLightning]

If Honda/Toyota ever start building these things...the service centers would go out of business. When we bought our last Honda (a CRV) the salesman offered me an extended warranty. I couldn't help myself, but I laughed at him. I asked what he thought I was going to do with and extended warranty...

[jpkelpe]

quote:Originally posted by Rondo

We'll see what happens with the steps made by Hickory Springs on the 2013 Montana's. I have heard rumors that there has been another recall sent out on the steps! This would be a recall of a recall of a recall! Haven't seen the recall notice yet but I got this from a very reliable source! Time will tell!

Yes there is a recall on the recall of the recall. Details not available at this time but there is definitely a third one

[jfaberna]

Maybe they'll have it figured out by the time of the National Rally. That would be a good time to fix a bunch of them.

[WaltBennett]

quote:Originally posted by DQDick

I fully agree and is a big reason we aren't buying a new rig. We keep adding to and repairing this one, because we don't want to deal with the problems of a new one. If they want us back on a dealers lot, the complaints here are going to have to be reduced significantly.

Could not agree more. Considering what bringing a new rig up to what we've got now in this one would cost, coupled with the crap shoot on quality of BOTH the new unit and the dealer's service people, we'll stick with what we've got.

[Clemson1881]

GM and Ford are now as good or better than Toyota/Honda. Domestic auto manufacturing was terrible in the 70s and 80s. Perhaps even into the 90s. But now the imports are starting to go through the cycle of arrogance. Unfortunately, the perception is still there that imports are superior. As far as RVs go, not sure there is a great brand at present.

[TLightning]

quote:Originally posted by Clemson1881

...GM and Ford are now as good or better than Toyota/Honda...

You are certainly entitled to your opinion...but I don't believe that for a minute.

[Clemson1881]

It's not an opinion. The fact is backed up by JD Power quality reports and other major consumer reports. It's exactly as I stated. The perception is still there even though in reality the imports have been passed by.
GM Passes Toyota to Win J.D. Power Quality Survey
by Megan DurisinCraig Trudell
June 19, 2013 — 1:00 PM EDT Updated on June 19, 2013 — 3:09 PM EDT
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Eight General Motors Co. vehicles led their respective segments, including five Chevrolets and one model each from its GMC, Cadillac and Buick brands. Photographer: Matthew Staver/Bloomberg
Eight General Motors Co. vehicles led their respective segments, including five Chevrolets and one model each from its GMC, Cadillac and Buick brands. Photographer: Matthew Staver/Bloomberg

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June 19 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Co. led one of the auto industry’s most closely watched quality measures for the first time since the survey began almost three decades ago, pacing U.S. carmakers producing their best cars in a generation.
All four of GM’s U.S. brands were ranked above average in J.D. Power & Associates’ Initial Quality Study, led by its GMC truck brand, which trailed only Volkswagen AG’s Porsche sports-car line. Chevrolet, Detroit-based GM’s biggest-selling brand, ranked fifth in the market, leapfrogging Toyota Motor Corp.’s namesake brand, which had the seventh-best score.
“If you were to ask me the question, what corporation has the best quality in the entire industry, the answer would be General Motors” for the first time, David Sargent, J.D. Power vice president of global vehicle research, said in a telephone interview. The gap in quality of domestic cars to imports is now “almost immaterial.”
The results are a shift in the 27-year history of a study long dominated by Toyota and other import brands. Consumers credited GM’s Chevrolet Silverado pickup, Ford Motor Co.’s Mustang sports car and Chrysler Group LLC’s Town & Country minivan for leading quality, more evidence that U.S. automakers’ lineups are the most competitive in decades.
The survey, conducted annually by Westlake Village, California-based J.D. Power, tracks the number of consumer complaints per 100 vehicles in the first 90 days of new car ownership. The market research firm revamped the study this year by beginning to measure the quality of new technology such as systems that warn drivers when they’re driving out of their lane or have something in their blind spot.
GM’s Winners
Eight GM vehicles led their respective segments, including five Chevrolets and one model each from its GMC, Cadillac and Buick brands. Honda Motor Co.’s Honda, Kia Motors Corp., Mazda Motor Corp. and Porsche fielded two models that won segment awards.
Toyota’s Lexus luxury line slipped to No. 3 after leading all brands the two previous years. The LS large premium car is Lexus’s only segment winner in 2013. The brand grabbed the most awards each of the last four years and topped every segment that it competed in just seven years ago.
The Toyota line was the only brand owned by Toyota or Honda to improve in this year’s study, moving up two spots to No. 6. It still trailed Chevrolet at No. 5. GM’s challenge is to maintain its standings as the automaker rolls out new models this year, and to change consumers’ perceptions that haven’t caught up with reality, J.D. Power’s Sargent said.
Former Laggards
“If you went out on the street and asked 100 people who has better quality, Chevrolet or Toyota, 90 people would say Toyota,” he said. “The reality is, they’re essentially identical and sort of have been for a few years now. People just don’t give the domestics credit because for 30 years they were laggards. You don’t overcome that reputation easily.”
While GM has matched Japanese quality, the company has so many new models coming to market that it will be difficult to repeat this year’s success, Sargent said today at an Automotive Press Association briefing in Detroit. New and redesigned vehicles tend to have more problems than carry-over models that have had more time to resolve defects. GM has 18 new vehicles being introduced this year to boost U.S. sales.
“I think if GM’s No. 1 as a corporation next year, I’ll be surprised and they will be surprised.”
‘Disappointing’ Toyota
Honda’s Acura premium line tied for sixth for the second consecutive year, and the Tokyo-based company’s namesake brand slipped three spots to No. 8. Scion, Toyota City, Japan-based Toyota’s youth-oriented brand, fell seven spots to rank last.
“They will consider this disappointing,” J.D. Power’s Sargent said of Toyota and Honda. “Toyota would expect Lexus to be No. 1 and Toyota to be No. 2. That’s their mission. Honda would expect to be in the top five. And they’re not.”
Of 11 brands owned by U.S. automakers, eight improved in the rankings versus a year earlier, with Ford’s Lincoln luxury line climbing one spot to match the industry average. The namesake Ford line was unchanged at No. 27, as the Dearborn, Michigan-based automaker’s Sync voice system and MyFord Touch controls weighed on results.
While Ford has improved its touch-screen and voice-control systems, that’s not translating to bigger gains in initial quality scores because the availability of the technology is spreading to more of its vehicles, Sargent said. Vehicles with the Sync or MyFord Touch systems climbed to 79 percent of Ford’s 2013 car and truck sales, from 68 percent for year-earlier models, the company said earlier this week.
“Ford is probably at its low point,” Sargent said. “As we go forward, the improvements they’re making to their technology will offset the fact that it’s in more vehicles. We’ll probably see Ford start to rise, particularly as we see some of the others introduce their versions of the technology.”
Chrysler Progress

[bigskyjimmy]

Gotta agree with ya on that one Clemson1881 ,I would not hesitate for a second to buy a Domestic car ,the days of Japanese Quality being superior to Domestic is pretty much Over IMO..and I own a Lexus one of the most reliable cars out there......too bad that that has not carried over to RV mfg.

[richfaa]

IMO the tide has turned some years ago. The foreign car makers with their quality and work ethic caused the USA car makers to improve. Now we need them in the RV industry.