This will sadden your heart - Montana Owners Club

Ozz · 02-10-2007, 01:39 AM

I saw this on Beach blvd, I will stop and see if I can get permission remove it, then find the proper way to retire it.
I can't imagine everyone just ignoring it. The tattered flag must have been like this for a long time.
I have to have a ladder, or I would have just removed it.
Anyone know what the proper way of honoring the retirement of our nations flag?
I'll check at the American legion post in Port Isabel.
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n...3/100_0829.jpg

LonnieB · 02-10-2007, 01:53 AM

That is a sad sight Ozz, one that I see all too often. People don't have the respect for our nations flag they once had. I don't know all the particulars, but if I remember correctly, proper protocol requires burning the flag.

On Edit - Ozz, I found it, look here.
http://www.flagpolesetc.com/flag-etiquette.html

BillyRay · 02-10-2007, 03:09 AM

most places like the Elks clubs, or a local American Legion will take them free of charge and the have ceramonies once a month to properly dispose of them.

Ozzie · 02-10-2007, 03:37 AM

Thank you for taking care of that guys - it was rather disturbing to see our flag in such a condition.
I've got the feeling Ozz is already back over there...

Okie Guy · 02-10-2007, 03:45 AM

Boy Scout troops take them and as part of their training they learn how to properly retire a flag.

patodonn · 02-10-2007, 05:25 AM

And, what well maintained flag is that in the upper left of the picture? Please tell me that it is, at least, the State flag of wherever you are. I think "not".

If I'm correct on whose flag it is, it speaks so truly and sadly of today's state of affairs in the SW US.

With a sad and angry heart,

Ozzie · 02-10-2007, 05:37 AM

I wasn't going to add my opinion, but after thinking about it I guess I have to.

The owner of this establishment doesn't seem to understand how degrading it is to display flags in such poor condition and needs to understand this concept. I hope Ozz in a diplomatic way is able to convey this message when he returns to offer his assistance.
If it isn't worthy of a citation, it should be.

Parrothead · 02-10-2007, 05:41 AM

Please donate the flag to either a Girl Scout troop or a Boy Scout troop. Both groups do the ceremony to properly retire the flag and they often do not have one to use. From an old Girl Scout leader and member.
Happy trails...................

Ozz · 02-10-2007, 06:22 AM

I am a little apprehensive at contacting them by myself, due to my strong feelings on this matter. My desire to stay out of jail so far from home is strong. The possible reactions from the people inside the motel, or whatever it is, may be predictable, as Our American flag would not be tattered as it is if they were the kind of people who would be reasonable in this matter.
I think I need to go with someone who may keep a cool head...........

Ozzie · 02-10-2007, 06:48 AM

I would have to agree with your assessment Ozz.
They more than likely are already showing their true colors by thinking those flags are merely for decoration and probably have no clue about what is proper or respectful.
You never know what you may run into. It could be a shotgun escort off the property.
Maybe it's time to have a little visit with the authorities. A simple inquiry about the owners may be all it takes.

Sorry if I'm a rabble rouser...I sure don't mean to suggest you take action, I know you want to, but just be careful.

indy roadrunner · 02-10-2007, 08:55 AM

I am going to take the high road here. Having put my life on the line for the Stars and Stripes I am well aware of the requirements. But you know in "todays" less that patraotic values, some people honestly don't know the respect due to flags, US or State. It may be they need to be told in an educational way of what the flags stands for and means to so many.

Ozz · 02-10-2007, 09:15 AM

I value all of your opinions, my plan is to check with the local VFW, American Legion, or the equivalant this coming week. (The locals, there may be a story I am unaware of here,) before I take action on this.

Wandering Star · 02-10-2007, 09:27 AM

Ozz, Don't know if there any local chapters of the American Legion or VFW but if there is thats were I would make a pit stop to discuss the disrespect that the owner is showing in his display of our flag.
I'm positive that you will find some good old boys who will assist you in properly retiring the flag. How about sending that picture to the local paper, be sure to get his business name in it and voice your feelings. Well Ozz you can see that I'm getting madder by the minute and my mind is working overtime on how to correct this situation. Wish I was there with you, between us the situation would be solved and we would be enjoying a couple of Corona's.

Jon

Wandering Star · 02-10-2007, 09:36 AM

Ozz, we must be on the same wave length. sorry on how my post appears, don't know how I got that big of a space. Pressed something wrong!!!!!

Jon

Ozz · 02-10-2007, 09:59 AM

Jon, Thanks, I wish you were here as well. Good idea about the paper, but I will see what they have to say first. Maybe it's an old person that just can't do anything about it. We will see.

Ozzie · 02-10-2007, 10:54 AM

The local Legion sounds like a good idea...maybe go have a Miller and strike up a conversation with a local old timer.
It's good you are carefully considering what to do bud...the fact that it is allowed to be there is a bit of a surprise to me.
Offer to replace the flag if there is some hardship and you'll get free drinks at the Legion.

rickety · 02-10-2007, 11:47 AM

Won't the local sherriff or police help out? This is a totally traiterous way to diplay the flag that so many of us, and our predecessors, gave so much to protect. I would get the VFW, Legion, Sherriffs, Nespapers, police, and anyone else I could think of to straighten out the idiots that own or run this establishment. Really makes me mad.

gkbutler · 02-10-2007, 12:59 PM

Any VFW or American Legion will take a retired flag for destruction. For anyone who desires to retire a flag; the proper way is to cut the stars out of the blue field, then cut each strip apart, then each portion of the flag may be burned in a small container without fanfare. According to tradition, the remains of the flag should be buried with full military honors. However, most people who retire a flag on their own may bury the burned remains as long as they are completely consumed and proper respect is rendered.

Montana Sky · 02-10-2007, 01:31 PM

Ozz,
Here is an idea that might help defuse the situation; head to your local Target or Wal*Mart and buy this place a new 3x5 nylon flag. Cost is around $19. When you go there and either you or them remove the current flag, present them with a new flag and just say something along the lines of "I thank you for flying the colors of the this great nation, in keeping that tradition alive, I wanted to present you with a brand new flag to fly." And just leave it at that. I feel your actions will speak louder than the words need to...

patodonn · 02-10-2007, 01:46 PM

US Code, Title 4, has the specifics of the retirement of the U.S. Flag. Lots of organizations have adopted ceremonies which are in compliance with the US Code. The specifics of the Code are as follows:

(k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem
for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.

That is it, in total, on that topic per US Law. (Least as far as I can find). I'm sure the VFW and similar organizations have expanded on that in dignified and ceremonial ways.

A couple of other things for the owners..

§ 6. Time and occasions for display
(a) It is the universal custom to display the flag only from sunrise to sunset
on buildings and on stationary flagstaffs in the open. However, when a patriotic
effect is desired, the flag may be displayed 24 hours a day if properly illuminated
during the hours of darkness.

And: (c) No other flag or pennant should be placed above or, if on the same level,
to the right of the flag of the United States of America,(with some noted exceptions, none of which apply in this situation)

I hope the VFW combined with other local organizations can assert their displeasure to the owner in a meaningful and effective manner.

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