Pulling doubles

[Phil P]

quote:Originally posted by JandC

If you look up reliable federal transportation regulations then a double will be a truck tractor pulling two trailers, the first of which will be attached by 5th wheel/king pin and the second by pin/hook type hitch.

State Troopers in almost all the states are the only ones authorized by the federal government to enforce federal transportation regulations. There are very few local law enforcement Officers allowed to enforce the fed standards.

This is fairly accurate the exceptions are.

The federal DOT regulations limit the size of both trailers to 28.5 ft. That excludes a lot of the Montana RV trailers.

The officers allowed to enforce the Federal DOT regulations are any certified police office that has completed the federal DOT training course in an approved school.

We have several counties in Florida that have cut the cost of enforcement by training the road patrol officers so they can do the Federal Dot stops including safety inspections and doing away with the dedicated patrol vehicles and officers.

Phil P

[troutbum53]

Our Montana is 35 1/2', so I am hoping they are not going to enforce the 28.5' length portion of the law. I haven't measured our truck with the Montana and the 10' motorcycle trailer all hooked up, but I am sure we are well under the 65' max. length. Here in Indiana most of the State police are trained and perform DOT inspections and enforcement as well, we still have State police DOT officers that are that only. I don't think that I have ever seen anybody pulling (RV) doubles stopped up here ( or anywhere else for that matter) that I can remember.

[Phil P]

quote:Originally posted by troutbum53

I don't think that I have ever seen anybody pulling (RV) doubles stopped up here ( or anywhere else for that matter) that I can remember.

I agree I have only seen one RV pulled over in downtown Okeechobee Florida for pulling more than one trailer and that clown was pulling a fifth wheel, Bass boat and an airboat trailer. I don’t blame them for pulling that rig over. LOL

Phil P

[mtheo]

I've been stopped once and had to show the local officer the DMV book, local county officer, he just told me have a nice day.
A friend once had to remove the prop from his boat because it put him at 65 1/2 ', office must of been having abad day.

[JandC]

"Phil P: This is fairly accurate the exceptions are.

The federal DOT regulations limit the size of both trailers to 28.5 ft. That excludes a lot of the Montana RV trailers.

The officers allowed to enforce the Federal DOT regulations are any certified police office that has completed the federal DOT training course in an approved school.

We have several counties in Florida that have cut the cost of enforcement by training the road patrol officers so they can do the Federal Dot stops including safety inspections and doing away with the dedicated patrol vehicles and officers."

Sorry Phil P, I have to correct what you said because it will mislead Montana folks and prevent them from legally pulling doubles. Federal DOT regs would never attempt to regulate RV's and most of the Montana's I see traveling down the road are registered as an RV and not a commercial vehicle. That is not to say that some states could not have adopted laws that mirror some of the federal length requirements. What I am saying is that as an Illinois Trooper if I see a RV double I know immediately that Federal regulations do not apply because it is not interstate or intrastate commerce and it is an RV. Therefore the only other things that would apply is State of Illinois Statutes. If those state laws to not restrict the length of a RV double then it is legal no matter what state it is registered in, when I see it going through Illinois.

As for local law enforcement being able to enforce federal DOT standards you are correct. If their department wants to send them to school and have them do those duties then the federal government will certify them. This is rare because generally city and county officers have enough to worry about without going out on the interstates and messing with commercial traffic.

I am just an old retired donut eating trooper relying on memory here. Folks may want to believe what someone reads on the internet and tries to interpret, heck who knows maybe all this stuff has changed in the 4 years since I retired. I would not hesitate to pull that extra trailer when traveling with the Montana as I said before. I believe, based on my professional experience and my observations going through other states, that it would be perfectly legal on designated truck routes. But just like Phil P, this is just an opinion and folks will have to decide for themselves what and how they want to tow safely and legally.

[Phil P]

quote:Originally posted by JandC

"Phil P: This is fairly accurate the exceptions are.

Hi

Sorry to disagree with you.

There are certain Federal regulations that apply to all vehicles while on the Interstate roads that are paid for by the Interstate road grant system.

Some of these are Vehicle weight, length, and width.

The height regulation was instated by the Federal DOT by using a Grant Qualification in the late 60’s that require all states that accepted the money to build and maintain the Interstate system to put a rule, regulation or law in to effect that limited the vehicle height to 13 ft 6 in. The present grant qualification requires the state that accepts the money to put a law in effect that requires child restraint seat use and the qualification even has the wording required to be used in the law.

The Federal regulations don’t even have the term RV or Recreational Vehicle in them. The exemption used for the RV is the definition of a “personal use vehicle” this definition is any vehicle owned or leased by the driver and all items carried there on are for his personal use. The only other exemption is for the trucks hauling race cars and there may be an exemption for farm equipment I haven’t ever researched the farm equipment but the rest I have researched.

All vehicles not in compliance with those 2 exemptions fall into the “Commercial Vehicle” category from a ½ ton pickup and larger. Next time you see a delivery truck on the highway pulling a Fifth wheel RV to the dealer look at the towing vehicle you will find a DOT number and fuel tax certificate and on Class A RV or any motor vehicle including cars being delivered by commercial driveway companies there will be a paper “transport” tag or document in the rear window.

The trailer length will apply to any vehicle pulling 2 trailers on the Interstate system or any vehicle pulling 1 trailer maximum length of 53 Ft provided they don’t exceed the total length regulation.

Now further to this the state of Florida has just in the last couple of years put a Uniform Traffic Code regulation in effect that does address the 2 trailer tow for Recreational Vehicles. It is a copy of the Federal DOT regulation so the 28.5 ft limitation now applies to all Florida public roadways and all private roadways within 5 airline miles of any state maintained roadway with a farm and Public Service Corp exemption.

Your stamen indicates that as long as it is an RV I can drive on the Interstate with a total weight of 100 tons if I wish?

Phil P

[jlb27537]

quote:Originally posted by Tom S.

What - like get caught?

Hi Tom, Yea, only did the motorhome thing once. Missouri to Colorado and back. Just too much wiggle in it. Saw several "enforcement officers" but they just looked and went on. I am sure at morning coffee they said, "you will not believe what I saw yesterday"

Jim

[JandC]

Phil P, I have provided my opinion based on some hands on experience. You apparently have researched and are confident you have a better understanding. It would take me twelve pages to explain everything instead of just providing a summary. You claim any vehicle can only be 13'6" on the federal interstate system? You can not really believe that. How is this country being built if nothing can be transported by truck that is only as tall as our Montanas? The actual truth is you can easily apply, get your proper routing, pay the fee, and haul much taller loads on any interstate. By your "research" and understanding we had all better get off the road and get in the bunk after 10 hours of driving because if they inspect our log books we will be placed out of service for driving too many hours. Like I said before, 90% of what you are reading in federal commerce regulations can not be enforced on RV's. It takes a week or two of class room instruction to get down most of these federal enforcement laws for commercial traffic. It takes another full week to actually learn "hours of service" instruction as it pertains to commercial drivers. If you wish to believe that you have a good understanding of the federal regulations, and in fact believe they generally apply to RV's, then by all means abide by all of them.

[Phil P]

quote:Originally posted by JandC

Phil P, I have provided my opinion based on some hands on experience.

You are the one that keeps bringing up the Commercial vehicle.

Nowhere in my post did I ever say anything about hours of duty or just about anything you put in your last post.

The RV owned or leased by the drive and used only for his personal use is not a Commercial Vehicle and is not eligible for any type of over weigh or over sizes permit under the Federal DOT regulations. The permitting process is for Commercial Vehicles only.

I was very clear that the personal vehicle is subject to the weight, length and width regulations if you say they are not then that indicates you believe we can transport our Montana’s on the Interstate system at any weigh, length, or height. Any intelligent person understands this is not the case.

Also the overweight permits for motor vehicle issued on the sate level are not valid on the interstate system and that is so stated on the permit. If they were Hershey Chocolate would not be spending thousands of dollars trying to get the Federal DOT to increase the maximum weight for their 18 wheelers to 88,000 lbs. Over height permits are not available for the Interstate system.

You keep beating your chest about your experience and training.

My experience spans 50 years in the transport of very large over size loads 40 ft wide 70 ft long and in some cases 25 ft high. The furthest we ever moved one was 110 miles. We sold this business to LaPlant-Adair a few years back.

The personal use vehicle is not exempt from all the Federal regulations just some of them.

Phil P

[dieselguy]

Heck, I can see the answer here ... just stay away from states on both coasts and pull to your hearts desire. It's played out well for me for years and years. Life's too short to worry about being a few inches over and troopers most always have bigger fish to fry.

[gkidsdlite]

I think anytime you are pulled over you can get tagged for something, but most officers are just keeping an eye out for reckless and obviously dangerous drivers on the highways, they are not out there looking to make someones life miserable! If you are driving reasonable then I don't think you have anything to worry about, JMHO. I don't believe that an officer would pull you over on the interstate or a state highway because you are pulling 2 trailers because it would tie him up for most of the day and he knows like a previous poster stated he has bigger fish to fry! I am going to do it when we finally get retired and on the road and not going to worry about it. The only thing I am going to worry about is waiting the year until my warranty runs out on the frame to start pulling the trailer behind my Montana which in my opinion is ridiculous since I think that a trailer hitch on the back should be a factory option! Makes me suspicious of the quality of the frames! Again JMHO!!!

[gkidsdlite]

I think anytime you are pulled over you can get tagged for something, but most officers are just keeping an eye out for reckless and obviously dangerous drivers on the highways, they are not out there looking to make someones life miserable! If you are driving reasonable then I don't think you have anything to worry about, JMHO. I don't believe that an officer would pull you over on the interstate or a state highway because you are pulling 2 trailers because it would tie him up for most of the day and he knows like a previous poster stated he has bigger fish to fry! I am going to do it when we finally get retired and on the road and not going to worry about it. The only thing I am going to worry about is waiting the year until my warranty runs out on the frame to start pulling the trailer behind my Montana which in my opinion is ridiculous since I think that a trailer hitch on the back should be a factory option! Makes me suspicious of the quality of the frames! Again JMHO!!!

[jlb27537]

I added Mor/ryde X Factor to the spring shackles to stiffen them up. Lippert installs spring shackles .025" (1/4") wider than what Dexter specs. When the shackles bent inward, I asked what is going on.

Keystone, said it was not a warrantable issue, Lippert gave me the Lippert specs, Dexter gave me their specs, and Mor/ryde said what the heck.

Keystone said my frame was no longer under warranty since I had added a aftermarket item to it. I contacted Mor/ryde, their engineering had a meeting with both Lippert and Keystone engineering and in the end Keystone decided to not void my frame warranty.

Put a hitch on it, and go have a good time. I posted pics of my hitch in a different thread. If the 12" I beam frame can not handle a properly designed hitch, we all need to go get a tent.