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06-03-2008, 09:19 AM
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#1
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 156
M.O.C. #8531
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Guys touchy Subject-- Tank Sensors
You post this topic on the main boards and you get mass hysteria!
Some are of the opinion that they are no &*^%$-ing good, never will be. Others are of the opinion that they are sometimes accurate,but with proper care and feeding. Some say that they only need a lock washer installed to be accurate all the time.
Time for the ladies slant--Are your sensors correct and what method do you use to ensure that your tanks don't overfill?
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06-03-2008, 09:34 AM
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#2
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: _
Posts: 5,238
M.O.C. #6337
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FIRST THINGS FIRST
WELCOME TO THE FORUM!!!!
Don't trust em.
We do clean them but, we are more interested in cleaning the tanks than the sensors. We use Calgon (for laundry) for this. Calgon only in the gray and galley tanks. Sometimes add a bit of bleach and laundry detergent in the black tank for cleaning. That is all, if it cleans the sensors, cool, if not, oh, well.
Richfaa discovered the lock washer thingy I believe, so far as I remember, that is working for him.
You can hear the toilet when it is getting near full, sound when you flush changes.
As far as the galley and gray, well, sometimes they get us, and they back up. We try to dump the gray after 3 showers, or 3 yorkie bathes. The galley, depends on how much cooking and cleaning we are doing, and that is sorta a guess.
One of the gals, just said she keeps a calendar with dump dates on it. Very organized gal!
Some dump every day, not a bad plan either.
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06-03-2008, 10:04 AM
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#3
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Palmer
Posts: 1,526
M.O.C. #7893
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Welcome to the forum from me too!
Nope, don't trust the sensors. They get grime and foreign matter stuck on them and they are false nearly all the time. We dump the galley twice a week and the gray stays open all the time in the summer. The black gets dumped when the toilet burps. Then the black tank gets the wash of its life, but the sensors still read full. I've never had sensors that worked correctly after the first month or so of use.
On edit: Calgon is a popular additive to the tanks. We cannot get Calgon in Alaska, so we use Cascade. They both help by keeping the tank slick so things can flow out better.
Tammy
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06-03-2008, 10:23 AM
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#4
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 156
M.O.C. #8531
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I'm glad for the welcome, though I'm not new. I've been posting as DH for over a year. About time I got my own ID.
Well, we've got two sensors that work, one that doesn't. Luckily for us the black and lav work, the galley always reads 2/3 full, even when it's empty. Go figure. Arom said that there are sensors that work, but would cost an additional $300+ to install at the factory; even those are prone to false readings. No joy on after market installation.
Why don't we all complain that our sensors don't work? We could overload "Team Montana" with complaints and then get the new sensors as a matter of course! We demand better SENSORS! We could get all of Keystone's owners to unite into one mass of disgruntled consumers which could in turn unite all RV'ers everywhere to demand better sensors! Finally, someone would design a better way to let us know how full of *&^&* we really are! OOPs, my soapbox started leaking, better go dump!
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06-03-2008, 11:21 AM
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#5
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Haldimand County
Posts: 2,413
M.O.C. #122
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You can buy after market sensors that work. They have external sensing. A very few high end RVs have these, but for the most part every mfr is using the same type of sensor as is in Montanas. We just learn to live with them and get along well enough that I have never felt it necessary to spend the $$$ to change the sensors. It bugs me that they don't work, but that is more a techie thing than a practical one.
I have not heard of the lock washer cure, could someone explain this for me?
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06-03-2008, 11:26 AM
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#6
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Palmer
Posts: 1,526
M.O.C. #7893
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John, I have been trying to find the thread by Richfaa for you to see the lock washer thing. I'm pretty sure it's in the thread he started just a while back when he had the black tank leak. I'll keep looking and when I find it, I'll post the link. Wish me luck!
Tammy
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06-03-2008, 11:31 AM
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#7
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Palmer
Posts: 1,526
M.O.C. #7893
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John, I can't find it so I PM'd Rich and gave him the link here. Asked if he could explain it. Hope it will help!
Tammy
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06-03-2008, 11:59 AM
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#8
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Montana Master
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Leona
Posts: 6,382
M.O.C. #2059
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We started having the "2/3 reading" problem in the galley tank, so I put 1/2 cup of strong degreaser in the galley tank after we dumped and were ready to travel. We added a full sink of water to it. We let it slosh for about 300 miles to the next setup. We added another 3 or 4 gallons of water and dumped. Amazingly, the gage read "empty".
Dianna descales the coffee maker with about a quart of vinegar about once a month. When the process is complete, she dumps the hot vinegar in the gray tank to break up the soap scum. So after dumping, our gray tank reads "empty" most of the time but never more than 1/3.
When I dump the black tank, I wash the thoroughly by filling it for 3 to 4 minutes and draining it. I continue this fill and drain process until the water runs clear(usually about 6 times), then it always reads "empty". This has been our protocol for a year now.
Dianna is the gage checker. Every morning and evening, she checks levels. When she reports that any tank is full, then I dump them all.
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06-03-2008, 12:42 PM
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#9
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
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I couldn't find the lockwasher thread, either, and just emailed Rich before I saw Icehouse already PM'd him.
Lisa, you will learn when the black tank is nearing it's capacity as it will burp at you when you flush. Vicki can tell prior to that. She says it has s deeper sound while flushing.
In non-freezing weather I just leave the shower tank open except when dumping the other tanks. The galley tank we figure out it's full when we pull the drain plug and it doesn't all drain out. Sometimes just before it's full you'll hear noises while it drains.
As OntMont said, you can get external sensors that really work but, as also said, we've learned it's just not enough of a problem for us to be worth spending much time and money on it.
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06-03-2008, 12:48 PM
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#10
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Palmer
Posts: 1,526
M.O.C. #7893
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Vicki is right! There is a deeper sound in the black tank just before it gets full. It sounds like it takes forever for anything to hit bottom.
Steve, does your galley tank creak if it gets full while washing dishes? Ours sounds like a haunted house. I will be washing dishes and it starts creaking. Bernie goes outside and dumps it. Creaking stops! I love simple solutions!
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06-03-2008, 02:18 PM
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#11
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Palmer
Posts: 1,526
M.O.C. #7893
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Allright, I PM'd Rich and here's his response to me. Hope this helps.
"posted that finding some time ago.You must have missed it. The black tank reported full all the time and the gray was not accurate. When we had our black tank leak and we had to drop the front two panels . The sensor connections for both those tanks are exposed. In checking around I found the black tank sensor connections were loose. I just finger tightened them and to my surprise the sensors worked. Did the same with the gray and they also worked. Went to Home depot and bought a package of 10 star lock washers of the proper size for I think 1.09 added them to the sensor connection,( there were none,) and they still work to this day. I told Aram that at the N.E rally and of course it was news to him that there were no lock washers of any kind on the sensors.He wrote that down. The galley tank still does not work but that tank is to far back and we did not drop that panel. I do not advise dropping the panels just to add lock washers as dropping the panels is not a pleasant task. The washers worked for us and when you think about it..makes sense....Hope this helps ???"
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06-03-2008, 03:15 PM
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#12
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Haldimand County
Posts: 2,413
M.O.C. #122
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I thank you (and Rich) for taking the trouble to get this info for me. If I ever get around to dropping the belly cover panels, I'll take a look at that. Thanks again!
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06-03-2008, 03:42 PM
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#13
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Topeka
Posts: 1,121
M.O.C. #2215
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Tammy ... YES!!! Our galley tank moans and groans and creaks when it's full/close to full. I keep telling Steve about the noise but couldn't describe it accurately. "A haunted house" is a wonderful description. Thanks!
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06-03-2008, 03:42 PM
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#14
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 156
M.O.C. #8531
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Thanks for the info on the degreaser. As I don't use grease and am on a low fat diet, I don't see that there is much I put down the sink, but as it's not reading correctly, I'll try your solution if the Calgon didn't work on this trip home. The vinegar as a de-scaler is also something I didn't consider.
Makes you wonder what's in CLR!
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06-04-2008, 10:21 AM
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#15
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
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Hmmm, I'm sorry to hear someone else has those same noises. So far I'd managed not to believe those noises came from the tank. Maybe I should say I don't want to think they come from the tank. If there are noises there is at least one cause for that noise. And since I don't recall hearing that noise until recently, the cause must have occurred fairly recently. That makes me wonder if our galley tank is loose and about to break loose from its moorings??
We're on a gravel site right now. I have three or four times crawled under the rig (re the axles) while in this site. It's not a comfortable place to work. When we get back to Independence I guess I better drop some bellypan and take a look. We'll be on a concrete pad there. That's 926 towing miles. I hope that tank hangs on that long. Or maybe the noises have to do with water having reached the vent outlet and the displaced air is just struggling to get out.
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06-04-2008, 10:49 AM
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#16
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Montana Master
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sunshine
Posts: 1,445
M.O.C. #538
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Our fresh water tank makes some noise when it is almost full. I just sit in my chair and listen when filling the tank. When the sound starts I get up and the water starts running out. It has always done this. I haven't noticed the other tanks.
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06-08-2008, 06:47 AM
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#17
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Montana Fan
Join Date: May 2006
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 373
M.O.C. #5774
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Ok.... my turn. Richfaa is right... dropping and putting the panels on the underside is NOT fun.
But we jointly did it.
As for cleaning the tanks... when we sit for a while (which still owning a stick house allows us to do)...
we put some enzymes in the tanks (not the gray) fill 'em up and let them sit for a few days (he says.. the
longer the better). The enzymes eat away at whatever is in the tanks and a good couple flushings seem to wash
away offending debris and odors.
He said the enzymes are available at most RV places (like camping world or a dealer) and SOME Wal-marts
have them. He said they are ...fast acting... enzymes.
Regardless of what the sensors say... I try to dump the galley every morning... whether it needs it or not.
The gray gets dumped right before I take a shower because with this long hair... my showers tend to be longer
than his. It's a fail safe.
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