Luck of the draw-Problems with all makes

[dieselguy]

Although I think Keystone has slipped a bit in the last couple of model years, I'm with Bingo. Owning 3 Montana's since 2000 ... No frame issues, no slide issues, no pinbox issues, no microwave issues, no rotten flooring. 1 delaminated entry door, decals were crap on the 2005, 2 brakes weren't even wired up behind the backing plate on my 2011.

[BB_TX]

quote:Originally posted by bigskyjimmy

That's funny!!! the UAW was turning out real stellar high quality auto's for many years out of Detroit......NOT then the Japanese started kicking our butts in Quality THEN the union boys got their act together or they were about to lose their jobs...Union ,Non Union like Rich said it is the COMPANIES responsibility to hire good workers and put good quality control in place

Unions sure did not impress me in my working life. If the ones I had to work with spent as much time actually working as they did making sure they didn't do anything they didn't have to and making sure no one else outside his trade did anything that was in his trade, they would have gotten a lot more real work done. Couldn't tell you how many times I would see one peeping around a corner watching me, and when I saw him, he would look around trying to appear innocent, but looking stupid instead.

OK. Off topic and end of rant.

[Rondo]

This is not the place to be pro or con any unions period! This forum has nothing to do with them and should be left to problems concerning the units themselves IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS!

It makes no difference if the RV industry are union shops or not. It all breaks down to the quality that is being put out by ANY AND ALL RV manufactures no matter if it is in Elkhart, Goshen or even in Kansas! It is not in just the Keystone Montana production but ALL RV's period. If there is a lack of Quality Control or a lack of caring by the worker on what they produce, there is poor quality units or areas of the production that will result in units that will be under standard. It's that way in all industries period, not just the RV industry. It's produce as much as you can, as fast as you can to save money anymore period!

As Rich stated, it takes time to implement or instill a work ethic into your workers so they really appreciate or take pride in what they are producing. The RV industry does not have that time nor money to invest into this. If you fall behind, all is lost in this industry as well as many others. It's the almighty dollar that talks now-a-days and the less it costs to produce the more profit goes to the company.

OK, I'M OFF MY SOAPBOX!!!

[Tom S.]

I have worked in union and non-shops, and I have been hourly and in management. I've also worked inside and outside the auto industry. The bottom line is the corporation tells the workers how to build their product - PERIOD. Someone mentioned Japan kicking the auto companies' butt in quality, but I bet the poster never knew why or how. After WWII, Japan was a metaphor for the word junk. Japan turned that around by hiring an American named Dr. Deming, who showed them that quality didn't cost, it paid. Using his philosophy, the Japanese empowered their workers to stop working when something with the product was wrong, and not only fix it, but search out the root cause of the problem and fix it as well. When the Japanese started beating the crap out of the American car market, it was the Union, of all people, who forced management to engage Quality Programs. Why would the union do that? Because every point of market share lost meant another closed plant and loss of up to 10,000 jobs. To show how corporate management of the time felt, examine Roger Smith of GM and his famous quote about not caring if GM lost market share or not, so long as the turned a profit. Smith's bean counting mentality not only drove market share away from GM, it is still felt years later in the faulty ignition switches GM used that cost so many lives.

Unfortunately for us, unless a foreign company like those in Japan and more lately South Korea, get into the RV market and start forcing the US RV Industry to change their mentality, we will continue to see products driven by the immediate bottom line instead of quality that ensures the bottom line remains secure.

Soap Box relinquished.

[8.1al]

Clicking the like button Tom

[Virginia Young]

All I know is that 8 hours of quality work doesn't take any more time than 8 hours of lousy work. Some people just don't take pride in their work and I've known people who will work harder at getting out of work than they would have worked if they had just done it to begin with. My dad raised me to do the best job I could do. No matter what that job is and no matter what it pays. If you take a job, you give 100%. I know mistakes are made, after all we are human. But, the next best thing to perfection is standing behind your work and making it right.

[bigskyjimmy]

Actually Tom the "original poster" does know why the Japanese turned things around from making junk to kicking our butts and I know all about DR Deming and he is Revered in Japan BUT in Fact they can also thank General Macarthur Who wanted him badly and requested he be Brought over to Japan to assist in rebuilding the Infrastructure after the war AND also it was Toyota" continuous improvement" A.K.A.
KAIZEN that took the Deming model to a whole new level that ALOT of US companies Employed to turn things around Including my old Company "KAIZEN" was drilled into our heads and it paid off for us any Many other companies,Too bad it is Not being taught in the RV industry or if it is the Management or employees are not committed to it

[moc5er]

Enough said. Topic is now locked.