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04-29-2006, 08:01 AM
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#1
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Seasoned Camper
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Greenbrier
Posts: 64
M.O.C. #5701
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Confusion - Tow Weights, GVWR, Pin Weights, etc..
2" from purchasing a 3400 expected in early June but awfully confused about weight ratings..
My truck is a Chevy 2500HD SB 4-WD Duramax/Allison. I am near the purchase of a Montana 3400 but hear so much about over rated, under rated pin weights, GVRW, ?? Is there anything or and literature that simplifies this? I wpold almose assure that the dealers will say...... You can pull anything we have but how to know for sure ??
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04-29-2006, 10:28 AM
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#2
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Gardnerville
Posts: 749
M.O.C. #2165
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mp-ray,
It is, always has been, and always will be a confusing issue. Whatever you do, don't listen to the salesman. First, search for the topic "weight being carried versus weight being towed" on the forum. You'll see the definition of the different weight ratings and some good comments from a number of MOCers.
An easy way for some to understand it is vertical load versus horizontal load, or weight being carried versus weight being towed. Find a comfortable way of looking at it so that it's easy to remember, because it's important to the reliability and safety of your equipment, and potentially how you're treated by your insurance company and the police.
Bob
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04-29-2006, 02:14 PM
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#3
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
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Got to tell this story about weight and legalities/ Helen was at the scene of a terrible accident a couple of days ago. A elderly man (87) pulled out of a parking lot into the path of a 18 wheeler loaded with steel. Witnesses say the 18 wheeler had less than 60 feet to stop before impact. The driver going under the speed limit never had time to react T boned the mini van and pushed it 300 feet before it stopped. The driver of the mini van was killed instantly. The newspaper report said // it is clear that the driver of the truck was not at fault..however..charges are "pending" upon the results of a investigation into the proper operation of the trucks braking system and that it was "within legal weight limitations"
If this guy was overweight he will be in a world of hurt even though he was not at fault and don't you think there will be a large civil suit against him??lessson learned..stay legal or take your chances..
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04-29-2006, 04:49 PM
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#4
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Machesney Park
Posts: 534
M.O.C. #798
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The "legal weight limitations" that apply to the 18 wheeler are the same as those that apply to pick-up and fifth wheel, most states 18,000lbs per axel or 32,000lbs for a tandem. There are no enforcement statutes other than those that apply. Manufactures recommended weights are not enforceable, and I have never heard of anyone loosing a civil suit based on manufactures weight limits. Defective brakes is a different story.
Bill
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04-29-2006, 07:33 PM
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#5
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Seasoned Camper
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Greenbrier
Posts: 64
M.O.C. #5701
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So apparently you are not having a problem pulling or stopping the 3400 with your ¾ ton. Granted we all know we do have added weight behind us and it will not stop on a dime but you seem to be doing Ok ??
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by William H. Collier
The "legal weight limitations" that apply to the 18 wheeler are the same as those that apply to pick-up and fifth wheel, most states 18,000lbs per axel or 32,000lbs for a tandem. There are no enforcement statutes other than those that apply. Manufactures recommended weights are not enforceable, and I have never heard of anyone loosing a civil suit based on manufactures weight limits. Defective brakes is a different story.
Bill
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05-01-2006, 03:03 PM
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#6
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Down the Road
Posts: 5,627
M.O.C. #889
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mp-ray,
I have not had any trouble when it comes to stopping. I think I am able to stop as well with my boat as I am with my 13,000 lb fifth wheel. It is all in the brake controller and having it set properly.
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05-01-2006, 03:58 PM
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#7
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Montana Master
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Spring Hill
Posts: 2,725
M.O.C. #59
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mp-ray
You can download a Monty manual at:
http://keystone-montana.com/index.ht...e&location=any
It will tell you some of the Weight rating Definations.
You can also go to the Chevy dealer and ask for a towing guide which explains a lot of the ratings and terminology.
In general if the abbrev. ends in an "R" it is a rating. If not it is a measured weight.
GVWR-Gross Vehicle Weight Rating... Both the truck and Monty will have a GVWR. This is the maximum wt the truck or Monty can carry. Go to a truck scale and weigh your truck with a full load of fuel, passengers and hitch. Subtract this from your GVWR and you will have the max pin wt you can carry without going over Chevys Spec. For example, my truck weighs 5960 with one tank full, hitch and driver so I have 8800-5960=2840 to play with for pin and truck cargo.
GAWR- Gross Axle Weight Rating. Both the truck and Monty will have one for each axle. If your hitch is installed correctly and your are within your GVWR, you will probably not be over the GAWR's.
As it works out for me I am just under the 8800 GVWR when fully loaded on the road. (Sum of both Truck Axle weights.
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05-01-2006, 04:22 PM
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#8
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Seasoned Camper
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Greenbrier
Posts: 64
M.O.C. #5701
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Am finally loosing the confusion now. Will weigh the truck tomorrow. As far as selling the Fleetwood, I have had 4 calls in the last 2 days so hope it sells.
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05-01-2006, 06:20 PM
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#9
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ft. Smith
Posts: 981
M.O.C. #116
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"Go to a truck scale and weigh your truck with a full load of fuel, passengers and hitch."
Include anything else you carry in the truck also, such as; tools, animals, bikes, fuel cans, wood blocks, etc. It adds up quite rapidly.
Skip
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05-02-2006, 04:31 AM
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#10
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Montana Master
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Spring Hill
Posts: 2,725
M.O.C. #59
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There is also a GCWR Gross Combined Weight Rating which is the total wt allowed for the truck and camper.
After you weigh the fully loaded truck then subtract this from your GCWR and this will give you the weight you CAN pull(Camper Weight).
You can get your GCWR from the Chevy trailering guide or your truck manual.
To add to confusion:
Montana also uses UVW (Unloaded Vehicle Weight) and CCC (Cargo Carrying Capacity) The sum of these two should be the GVWR of the trailer.
When I am fully loaded on the road I drive to the truck scales and weigh all axles of my truck and camper. You will get wts on the Front truck axle, rear truck axle, and trailer axles. Sum of the Axle wts is my GCW Gross combined weight. This value should be below my GCWR. It is!
Then I subtract the truck weight from GCW and that gives Actual trailer weight. This value should be less than the GVWR of the trailer.
The last thing I have to is subtract the truck weight from Front and Rear truck axle readings and that is Pin Weight.
Pin weights will vary depending on the loading but in general are 20-25 percent of total trailer weight.
I guess there are different ways to say all of this.
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05-02-2006, 04:41 AM
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#11
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Montana Fan
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sioux Falls
Posts: 398
M.O.C. #3846
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Tom,
You're the best at explaining stuff!
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05-02-2006, 07:17 AM
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#12
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Montana Master
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Spring Hill
Posts: 2,725
M.O.C. #59
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Thanks Virgil,
At my age though I sometimes miss the boat on some things Too many Senior moments.
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