Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Montana Owners Club - Keystone Montana 5th Wheel Forum > GENERAL DISCUSSIONS > General Discussions about our Montanas
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-31-2012, 08:53 AM   #61
sreigle
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by jwedell

We just replaced our Marabombs (spare included) with Firestone Transforce HT with a load range E. Although we have 7K axles we treat them like 6K axles and never load the rig over 12,000 lbs. The carrying capacity was 3,600 lbs and even with the reduction we can still carry 2,100 lbs. We travel light and keep all heavy items (tools, etc.) in the truck. If you watch your weight the E rated tires will work safely. What works for me may not work for you. Above all be safe.
You could go to a max weight of 12,000 lbs plus actual hitchweight, so long as it doesn't exceed GVWR. For your tires, it's not exceeding the tire rating at any wheel location that's important.
 
sreigle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 09:02 AM   #62
sreigle
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by jwedell

PSFORD99,
That 12,740 lbs, is that that axle weight or GVW. Axle weight from the factory should be 9,880 lbs. If that's axle weight you already have 2,860 lbs already loaded without water, clothes or food. WOW

Shipping Weight = Axle Weight + Pin Weight
OR
Axle Weight = Shipping Weight - Pin Weight

If this gets any more confusing I'm selling everything and buying a tent.
As an aside, a few years ago I asked a Keystone engineer how they determine GVWR. His answer: GVWR = Total axle rating plus estimated pinweight. Not a very comforting reply.
sreigle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 03:20 PM   #63
PSFORD99
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Centerville
Posts: 1,347
M.O.C. #9051
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by sreigle

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by PSFORD99

I strongly suggest the same, considering it just plain bad advice for someone to recommend any tire regardless of quality if it does not meet or exceed the OE rating, yes, and I repeat many do it. I have no argument that the Michelin is not a good tire, it just plain does not meet the weight rating these fifth wheels need . I would like to hear Lonnie weigh in on this subject of E rated LT tires rated at 3042 on 7K axles, and fifth wheels with the GVWR of 15-16K
I'm having trouble understanding why I should care about how new tires compare to the OE tire ratings? I'm more interested in whether the tire's rating exceeds the actual load on the tire. The only way to know that is to weigh the rig on each wheel, which I highly recommend, anyhow. So am I missing something?

PSFord99, you've been around here quite awhile and I respect your opinion.
My only point is the majority of the the newer Montana fifth wheels have around 15500 GVWR, it is simple math, load one up to max rating , and you have the potential to go over the rating of a LT E rated tire @ 3042.

You are not missing anything, and you are correct, weigh each wheel , and see if you are over any ratings on the tire, wheel or axle. I repeat what I have said before, I will chose to run a tire that meets or exceeds the OE, and most of the LT E rated tires that fit our trailers do not meet that weight rating. I don't want to worry every time I load something that I am going to go over on the weight rating of a tire that is already under my potential weight rating
PSFORD99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 03:22 PM   #64
PSFORD99
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Centerville
Posts: 1,347
M.O.C. #9051
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by sreigle

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by PSFORD99

I strongly suggest the same, considering it just plain bad advice for someone to recommend any tire regardless of quality if it does not meet or exceed the OE rating, yes, and I repeat many do it. I have no argument that the Michelin is not a good tire, it just plain does not meet the weight rating these fifth wheels need . I would like to hear Lonnie weigh in on this subject of E rated LT tires rated at 3042 on 7K axles, and fifth wheels with the GVWR of 15-16K
I'm having trouble understanding why I should care about how new tires compare to the OE tire ratings? I'm more interested in whether the tire's rating exceeds the actual load on the tire. The only way to know that is to weigh the rig on each wheel, which I highly recommend, anyhow. So am I missing something?

PSFord99, you've been around here quite awhile and I respect your opinion.
My only point is the majority of the the newer Montana fifth wheels have around 15500 GVWR, it is simple math, load one up to max rating , and you have the potential to go over the rating of a LT E rated tire @ 3042.

You are not missing anything, and you are correct, weigh each wheel , and see if you are over any ratings on the tire, wheel or axle. I repeat what I have said before, I will chose to run a tire that meets or exceeds the OE, and most of the LT E rated tires that fit our trailers do not meet that weight rating. I don't want to worry every time I load something that I am going to go over on the weight rating of a tire that is already under my potential weight rating
PSFORD99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2013, 02:24 PM   #65
fauch
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Baton Rouge
Posts: 431
M.O.C. #11342
YES YOU ARE RIGHT PSFORD99! but with all the rubber on a scale, you will find ST Es sufficient on most of our Montanas.
...here's the 'rub', ....
porpoising, bouncing, and running 70-80 mph vs 65..EATS the capacity of the G614
Speed Rating on the G614 is 75mph
understanding the centrifugal force stress factor is important
this is the construction factor that distorts and causes WEIRD tread wear and blow-outs
I stick to my position for my personal purchasing choice; A FIRESTONE (for example) trans-force E tire with a 110mph speed rating gets you a lot more reliability than the E OEM tires
fauch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2013, 04:27 PM   #66
Irlpguy
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Chilliwack
Posts: 1,520
M.O.C. #12935
The thought of a Montana loaded to the maximum and in a lot of cases over the maximum, plus the weight of the TV careening down the highway at 80 mph sends shivers up my back. The trailer weighs close to 16,000 lbs, the truck will likely weigh in at around 8000 lbs. Imagine trying to stop 24,000 lbs with the brake capacity on these units in a reasonable distance should something happen, and you might get the picture I am seeing.

These units are “not” meant to be pulled at 80 mph, whatever happens to your tires at that speed would garner no sympathy from me or most other sensible people.

I must be just plain dumb because I cannot see how you gain an advantage on a 7000 lb axle by replacing a ST tire rated for 65 mph and 3460 lbs with a LT tire rated for 110 mph and only 3042 lbs. All you have done is reduce the carrying capacity by 800 lbs, you might as well have 6000 lb axles. I don’t care what the speed rating is, when a tire hits a pot hole at 65 it could very well do significant damage to the tire, if you hit the same pot hole at 80 the damage would be considerably exaggerated.

My suggestion is, if you can’t get where you are going at the rated speed limit of 75 mph on a G614, then why not buy airplane tires, then you could actually take off and land the Monty in excess of 100 mph.

Recognizing the weight limitations, maintaining proper tire pressures and keeping your tires within those boundaries while allowing for some safety margin, will provide you with a lot more success no matter what tire you are using. JMHO





Irlpguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2013, 04:39 PM   #67
DQDick
Site Team
 
DQDick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Wilsey
Posts: 18,799
M.O.C. #11455
While I run with 614's I don't believe the LT folks are under protected. LT tires are held to a much stronger standard particularly in regard to reserve capacity than ST tires are. Putting an LT tire on a rig in place of Marathons is a safety improvement regardless of what it says on the sidewall.
__________________
Dick, Joyce, Diego, Picatso and Gustav
2017 3720 RL, and 2013 HC 343RL
Pullrite Hitch, IS, Disk Brakes, 3rd AC, Winegard Traveler, Bathroom door mod, Dometic 320, couch for desk swap, replaced chairs, sun screens, added awnings, etc.
DQDick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2013, 05:55 PM   #68
PSFORD99
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Centerville
Posts: 1,347
M.O.C. #9051
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by fauch

YES YOU ARE RIGHT PSFORD99! but with all the rubber on a scale, you will find ST Es sufficient on most of our Montanas.
...here's the 'rub', ....
porpoising, bouncing, and running 70-80 mph vs 65..EATS the capacity of the G614
Speed Rating on the G614 is 75mph
understanding the centrifugal force stress factor is important
this is the construction factor that distorts and causes WEIRD tread wear and blow-outs
I stick to my position for my personal purchasing choice; A FIRESTONE (for example) trans-force E tire with a 110mph speed rating gets you a lot more reliability than the E OEM tires

Iripguy said it best, but let me add, those G614's of mine will never see 75 mph NEVER, so there is no worry on my part about needing a tire that will handle 110 mph,for that matter I had no problem with the oe tire that was limited to 65 mph.
PSFORD99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2013, 06:59 AM   #69
fauch
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Baton Rouge
Posts: 431
M.O.C. #11342
it does not matter how fast you drive.
a 110mph speed rated tire will hold up to the centrifugal force applied at ANY speed, better than one rated at 65 mph
fauch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 11:23 AM   #70
sreigle
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Irlpguy

I must be just plain dumb because I cannot see how you gain an advantage on a 7000 lb axle by replacing a ST tire rated for 65 mph and 3460 lbs with a LT tire rated for 110 mph and only 3042 lbs. All you have done is reduce the carrying capacity by 800 lbs, you might as well have 6000 lb axles.
I may have missed which tire you're referring to but the G614 LT LR-G tire is rated for 110 psi and 3750 lbs, not 3042. It is an LT tire but specifies "for trailer use only" both on the sidewall and the Goodyear website. Maybe I misunderstood which tire you are referring to.
sreigle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 11:40 AM   #71
Irlpguy
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Chilliwack
Posts: 1,520
M.O.C. #12935
I was referring to replacing the "stock" tires that come on the Monty as in Goodyear Marathons which are E rated tires @ 3460 lbs. The Goodyear G614 is an option but is not stock, sorry if what I said was confusing. Replacing a G614 would be even more difficult to understand.
Irlpguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 12:13 PM   #72
bigskyjimmy
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Washington Coast
Posts: 2,688
M.O.C. #10696
I am still confused and I am getting too Paranoid reading these posts about tires But i can't help myself it is like trying not to look at a wreck on the side of the road ,the heck with it! I'm staying with the Marathons and "ROLL THE DICE" baby
__________________
[
bigskyjimmy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 12:26 PM   #73
Irlpguy
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Chilliwack
Posts: 1,520
M.O.C. #12935
You are too funny Jim, I will be sure to wave as I go by at the end of the month with my Marathons humpin up n down... That's provided I get all the other things fixed by then and get er back from the dealer...LOL

The funny thing about this tire debate is that there are hundreds of thousands of Chinese tires on cars and trucks in America with minimal concern. Tires on these big rigs just create a whole different dynamic.

You got those straw bales up yet?
Irlpguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 02:15 PM   #74
bigskyjimmy
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Washington Coast
Posts: 2,688
M.O.C. #10696
You better believe I got those bales up my friend my Neighbors LOVE ME!! nuthin'in says class like hay bales and old junker cars around my 5th, you ought to see my bitch'in 75 AMC Pacer out front,by the way as you are passing by Olympia throw those shreaded Marathons my way I need some more fuel for my bonfire I'm having a Kegger tonite!
__________________
[
bigskyjimmy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2013, 05:25 AM   #75
richfaa
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
Had a leaking valve stem on the way down to Florida and had to change out the tire.Just got around to having Goodyear replace the stem which BTW was improperly installed at the factory. The tire had less than 5K miles on it and I related to the Goodyear tire guy the concerns about the G6 14S here on this thread.He looked the tire over in regard to wear, etc and said the tire was perfectly normal.He replaced the valve stem at no charge.I have the old stem and we will have a chat with Keystone about the sloppy workmanship that without the Tire monitoring system could have been a costly disaster.
richfaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2013, 12:52 PM   #76
bw2
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 854
M.O.C. #5592
For my edification, does Keystone install the tires onto the rims or are they provided with the tires installed onto the rims by Tredit?
bw2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2013, 04:10 PM   #77
8.1al
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Benson
Posts: 3,121
M.O.C. #1658
they come mounted from Tredit
8.1al is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2013, 05:01 PM   #78
DQDick
Site Team
 
DQDick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Wilsey
Posts: 18,799
M.O.C. #11455
I don't think problems with Marathons are a myth. Both rallies I've been to have had a number of folks with the tire remains and or the damage to justify their statements. I've also run into several folks at campgrounds we've stayed at with Marathon issues. No substitute for personal observation.
__________________
Dick, Joyce, Diego, Picatso and Gustav
2017 3720 RL, and 2013 HC 343RL
Pullrite Hitch, IS, Disk Brakes, 3rd AC, Winegard Traveler, Bathroom door mod, Dometic 320, couch for desk swap, replaced chairs, sun screens, added awnings, etc.
DQDick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2013, 03:29 AM   #79
richfaa
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
They do come mounted from the vendor.Still Keystones responsibility.The problems with the Marathons are real.
richfaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
g614 tires rafael33155 TIRES, Montana Tires 21 04-18-2016 07:43 PM
G614 tires edandjudyz General Discussions about our Montanas 8 06-12-2014 11:53 AM
WHY G614 TIRES Larry-P TIRES, Montana Tires 23 04-30-2014 04:14 PM
G614 tires sailer Maintenance 17 06-14-2011 05:08 AM
G614 tires ljensen General Discussions about our Montanas 6 04-17-2010 11:19 AM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Montana RV, Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.