king pin weights and vehicle weight

[okierver]

Hi new to moc
we just purchaced a new 2011 high country 323rl love the monty, here is my question
1 we pull with a 2003 f-250 ps dsl with a superchip tuner installed
my truck weight is 8800 gvw.
i weight at 6820 full fuel no passengers.
steer axle 4020,drive axle2820 6820 gross wt.
truck and trailer weighed full fuel no passengers monty loaded full water.
steer axle 4080, drive ahle 4960 trailer axle 8340 gross wt 17340
giving me a pin wt of 2140lbs. kestone brochure 1870 a trailer wt of 8340 giving me a total trailer wt of 10480, ok there monty will go 12270.
my truck axle wt is6084 and the drive axle and pin wt is 4960 under the axle wt. but the truck gvw is 8800 and i have 6880+2140 pin wt and 4 people at 525 lbs. give me 9545 -8800 =over by roughly 700lbs give or take is this a concern. oh the ford gcwr is 20000 lbs we are at roughly 18140 with full water tank we are not maxed out with gross combined , is the gvw on the truck something to worry about since all other wts are in ,, below gross combines and axles arent overloaded sorry so long thanks for any advice

[firetrucker]

First, pin weight is actually 2200 pounds...you forgot to add the weight increase on your front axle.

Second, I imagine you're not the only one that's running over the GVW of their truck, and you'll probably not have a short term problem.

But, every pound adds stress to your truck, reduces fuel mileage, and, if you're stopped and weighed, could lighten your wallet.

To me, GCWR relates to the drive train and the brakes, and GWR relates to the suspension (which includes the tires). Being over by almost 1000 pounds means I'd pay extra attention to suspension maintenance (including tires). Mechanical things are unforgiving, no matter what the salesman or your best friend might say.

Bob

[okierver]

firetrucker
my rear axle is rated for 6084lbs. what do i use to figure if it is overloaded

[Art-n-Marge]

I want to understand your truck's weight ratings. You say your truck weighs 8800 lbs, but what does the door pillar say for GVWR (gross vehicle weight RATING), FAWR and RAWR?

There is a very good chance you can upgrade your F-250 to an F-350 by adding the proper overload spring, brackets and possibly larger tires. I was able to do this on my truck legally, however I can only use it for private use. I have to recertify the truck where they confirm that Ford parts are used and installed correctly and this means I will be issued a new VIN door sticker with the new ratings and codes in the VIN to denote the truck is now upgraded if I want to also use it for commercial use. Since this costs money to recertify and will also cause the DMV rates to go up because the truck can carry more weight, I opted not to do this and will live within the limits that I can only use this for personal use. I cannot tow things for a living or use my truck at the higher ratings as a commercial vehicle. But the truck qualifies for the F-350 ratings as long as I keep the paperwork showing the proper equipment was added.

The key is to use factory parts. I also purchased larger factory wheels called "take offs" to support larger tires rated to carry this new weight. "Take offs" are wheels removed from someone who customizes their truck and has left over wheels that were "taken off" the truck. I also used factory hardware so if I want to certify I saved all the documentation and they can review it against what they can see on my truck and voila... you now have F-350 ratings.

This does not always work in all cases but for Ford, the last few years, the differences have only been larger wheels and an additional leaf spring. I have also seen that some Ford F-250s have all the hardware (as an option from the dealer), but still kept the F-250 nomenclature to keep DMV costs down.

I had your problem and solved it in this manner. Note: most aftermarket hardware would require a different certification procedure that I understand is more difficult to comply with, so I went the easy route using Ford factory components.

If you would like more information on this PM me and we'll go from there.

[firetrucker]

Scale weights are always the way to tell if your vehicle is overloaded, and it's a good idea to weigh not only the axles, but each individual tire.
Often, with the trailer, there is a significant difference in tire weights from side to side and back to front. This information can help you with distribution of weight in your trailer and proper tire inflation for the load it's carrying. Even the height of the pin box can affect the front/rear axle loading.

For your truck, the assembly or system is what they're rating, and that rating is based on the weakest part of the system. That's why, as Art says, you can increase the gross weight rating by upgrading the components that are limiting the rating. Not always an inexpensive approach, but effective.

Bob

[Hooker]

Two things to consider:

- Look at the Tire and Loading Information sticker on the left side of your truck's door frame. It will list your TOTAL cargo capacity.

- ACTUAL tow capacity is the GCWR minus the weight of the truck, when ready to tow.

[okierver]

some clarification the 8800 lbs is off the door sticker for gvw of my truck
the scale weight was 6820 full fuel no passengers.
rear axle weight truck only full fuel was 2820.lbs
rear axle truck and trailer full fuel was 4960slb. - first rear axle gave me a pin wt of 2140lbs.
total weight truck + trailer full water and fuel. was 17340 lbs.
trailer axle wt was 8340 lbs. + pin wt of 2140 gave me a total trailer wt only of 10480.
the total wt of 17340 is within the trucks 20000 gcwr.
but when i add both axle wts of 4960 and 4080 of front axle with truck and trailer gives me 9040lbs. wich is over my doors 8800 gvw by 240lbs.
pllus about 700lbs with 4 people added in gives me940 lbs over gvw. would airbags help this situation or as you say go with the k nock offs and
tires.

[firetrucker]

You said your steer axle weight increased by 60 pounds, so some of the pin weight ended up on the front axle. Add that to the 2140 on the rear axle.

The brochure is most likely the dry weight. There is a sticker inside one of your kitchen cabinets that should give the dry weight and cargo carrying capacity of the Monty. Pin weight should run 20-25% of the gross trailer weight, so those numbers sound about right.

Air bags will change the way the suspension reacts to the weight (it's an additional spring element), but it won't change the gross weight ratings of the truck. Only changes in key mechanical components will do that. I'd be tempted to say that quite a few people are overw GVW on their trucks, but I think most are becoming cautious about admitting it.

Bob

[Art-n-Marge]

I was one of the few who made the admission about being overweight. Fortunately, I was able to fix it.

But in your case, it will be tougher. You state your GVWR is 8800! My GVWR for my 2006 Ford F250 was 10,000 and I was still overweight at rear axle and the gross because my 20% pin weight caused it. When I first bought the trailer I went strictly by documentation and didn't like the way my rear end sagged. So I installed Firestone air bags to fix that. Then everything hit the fan when I finally went to the scales and got the numbers that showed I was overweight. The ride was okay because of the air bags, but I was still overweight and didn't want to be.

My error was only relying on the marketing and sales documentation about weight. I also did not know about things like aftermarket improvements DO NOT increase your weight rating including Air Bags or aftermarket suspension kits. This is because there are too many other components to worry about that might also have to be changed, like brakes, drive shaft, shocks, differential, etc, etc, etc. The fine print is there. It's more than adding a Superchip to your monster diesel so you can speed up a hill. If you are overweight something else is taking the risk. Consider that the same engine and transmission are used with other models of more capable trucks. The weight capacity differences will not be just the engine and trans.

After months of investigation I learned that my 2006 F-250 could be changed to a 2006 F-350 (and earn its weight ratings) by adding some hardware and changing the wheels and tires. You might be able to do some of this too, but you must see a Ford dealer to make the comparison of your model year F-250 and F-350 to find ALL the differences. Part of my investigation showed that even Ford personnel do not know all the details.

Firetrucker's posts are right on the money about the way things work, the relationship of the weights and what doesn't help even though some money happy salesman will say otherwise.

[RCN.Stoker]

In most instances the limiting factor is tires. For example an increase from a 245 75R16 to a 265 75R16 adds over 700#'s (total) to your rear pair of tires.

[okierver]

thanks everyone for the posts
we left friday nite from broken arrow (tulsa area) to oklahoma city. truck traveled well inspite of the weight the truck seemed pretty level to the trailer. we traveled around 60-65 then down to 50-55 on the hills got back this morning. first trip with the monty everyting went well very pleased so far.

[seanjackmc]

I just traded my 2010 250 for a 2011 350. The 250 had gvwr of 10000 the 2011 350 is 11500. Makes the difference to me. I was 700 lbs over with my monty 3750fl on the 250. Ive yet to weight the 350 due to low miles and inablitly to tow yet but I figure to be 800-900 under. Makes me sleep better at night. Whether or not there is a huge differnce I figure ford has a reason for the ratings.

[Parts Ed]

Okay, ny turn for all you experienced 5th wheel owners. Have Firestone air bags on my TV, do you inflate them to the pressure you desire before hooking up to the trailer or after? My thought is that you would inflate them before you hook up.

TIA
Parts Ed

[pineranch]

I put 20 psi in sometime before and adjust after hooking it up.
Mike

[exav8tr]

seanjackmc, that is always a good feeling............Parts ED: Why not hook up, THEN use your air bags to level the trailer, not the bed. That way your trailer will be perfectly level and have equal weight on both trailer axles, except side to side, of course......

[Parts Ed]

Thanks for the replies, I will try that when we go on our maiden voyage this May.