Hydraulic Pump Breaker Upgrade

[glendodom]

I have a 2018 3721RL with the inverter for the refrigerator.

Earlier back in the winter months I was having issues with the slides and level-up system stopping and basically rebooting. Based on Lippert guidance (attached) it advised upgrading the 50 amp breaker to an 80 amp. I did so but continued having issues.

I now have an inverter issue whereas it has evidently blown an internal fuse according to the Magnum Dimension Tech. In my research now in chasing wires, I have figured out my unit's wiring to the inverter comes off of the battery through a breaker, thru a cutoff switch direct to the inverter.

The breaker I upgraded was to the inverter not the hydraulic pump since the picture showed a Busman breaker that looks identical to the one going to the inverter.

Now I am confused, the breaker to the inverter was originally a 50 and the manual states not to exceed 150 amp, so I guess the 80 I put in is ok for the inverter? Can anyone give me a good part of the breaker for the pump or is it the same type of breaker that is used on the inverter line? Thanks

[rohrmann]

I guess you already figured out that the new breaker you installed has nothing to do with the hydraulic pump, and that is why you are still having the same issue with the hydraulics. The replacement breaker will be installed in place of the breaker that has the cable going to the hydraulic pump. You may also have a second cable attached to the same terminal as the pump cable, but however the old breaker is wired, wire the 80 amp breaker exactly the same way. You will probably have to enlarge the holes in the ring connectors so they will fit the terminals on the 80 amp breaker. This is a link to one of these breakers listed on ebay, but you may be able to find them in some auto parts stores. https://www.ebay.com/itm/80-Amp-HI-A...-/141120902895


This is a photo of where my 80 amp breaker was installed, and you will see a small breaker next to it, but that breaker has never had a problem so it wasn't changed.

[glendodom]

Reference the question of upgrading the hydraulic pump breaker from a 50 amp to the 80 amp breaker, I spoke with the Keystone/Montana Customer Relations Div today and discussed my continued issue of the slides causing In-Command system to basically shut off and reboot advising her I had seen where Lippert had a paper out advising of upgrading to an 80 amp breaker. She advised that they didn't show any such advisement from Lippert. She advised I could take it in to a shop and have them submit a technical issue with the situation for their evaluation. CW had already called themselves upgrading my breaker but had actually upgraded the inverter line breaker instead. I may be to the point of just doing it myself. Seems to be a losing battle getting the point over to both CW and Keystone!

For clarification, the picture attached of my wiring the breaker in the middle is the one where the wire feeds up to the hydraulic pump. As noted within the picture the original breaker doesn't look like the breaker to the Busman breaker to the left which feeds the inverter but as I understand Lippert advises to upgrade with a Busman 80 Amp breaker which looks like the one on the left. Correct?

[Mikendebbie]

The sketch I included on post #10 above was wrong and I have tried to doctor it up a bit below. I labeled some items A B C and 1-2 for reference.

I intend to call magnum again and quiz them for the correct size fuse to install on my inverter line (A).

I intend to install an 80 amp breaker for my hydraulic pump in position (B). If you look at the breaker in the sketch on line A and how it is oriented with 1 on top and 2 on bottom - the 80 amp breaker on line B will have the wires at position 1 on top (electrical current out) and the wires at position 2 on the bottom pole of the breaker (electrical current in). I am told I will need to drill out the connections for the small red wires to get them to fit the breaker pole.

[Al & Sheila]

Originally Posted by Mikendebbie

The sketch I included on post #10 above was wrong and I have tried to doctor it up a bit below. I labeled some items A B C and 1-2 for reference.

I intend to call magnum again and quiz them for the correct size fuse to install on my inverter line (A).

I intend to install an 80 amp breaker for my hydraulic pump in position (B). If you look at the breaker in the sketch on line A and how it is oriented with 1 on top and 2 on bottom - the 80 amp breaker on line B will have the wires at position 1 on top (electrical current out) and the wires at position 2 on the bottom pole of the breaker (electrical current in). I am told I will need to drill out the connections for the small red wires to get them to fit the breaker pole.

I added a relay on Monday and the wiring was slightly different than what you show. The terminal on mine where the larger wire feeds the hydraulic pump has two large wires, one for the pump and the other goes into the coach and I assume lands at the converter.

[DR Buck]

Originally Posted by rohrmann

I guess you already figured out that the new breaker you installed has nothing to do with the hydraulic pump, and that is why you are still having the same issue with the hydraulics. The replacement breaker will be installed in place of the breaker that has the cable going to the hydraulic pump. You may also have a second cable attached to the same terminal as the pump cable, but however the old breaker is wired, wire the 80 amp breaker exactly the same way. You will probably have to enlarge the holes in the ring connectors so they will fit the terminals on the 80 amp breaker. This is a link to one of these breakers listed on ebay, but you may be able to find them in some auto parts stores. https://www.ebay.com/itm/80-Amp-HI-A...-/141120902895


This is a photo of where my 80 amp breaker was installed, and you will see a small breaker next to it, but that breaker has never had a problem so it wasn't changed.

I am having trouble finding an 80 amp breaker-----can a 100 amp breaker be used?? or a 70 amp?? I can find those---------

[Mikendebbie]

Just found two of them on Amazon. I think this is the same one I installed on my unit.

[DR Buck]

I will look further again---

[Carl n Susan]

Originally Posted by glendodom

I now have an inverter issue whereas it has evidently blown an internal fuse according to the Magnum Dimension Tech. In my research now in chasing wires, I have figured out my unit's wiring to the inverter comes off of the battery through a breaker, thru a cutoff switch direct to the inverter.

The breaker I upgraded was to the inverter not the hydraulic pump since the picture showed a Busman breaker that looks identical to the one going to the inverter.

Now I am confused, the breaker to the inverter was originally a 50 and the manual states not to exceed 150 amp, so I guess the 80 I put in is ok for the inverter? Can anyone give me a good part of the breaker for the pump or is it the same type of breaker that is used on the inverter line? Thanks

The RV uses two circuit beakers (originally both are 59 amp unless someone has changed one as recommended).

The inverter does *NOT* use a self resetting circuit breaker. It uses a 300 amp fusible link. It looks completely different than the self resetting cb. It is the long thing on the left is the picture below. If you did change the fuse to a 50 amp cb I can see why the inverter is having problems.

[Mikendebbie]

I have a 2018 model and I am confused like the original poster. My issues started in month 11 of ownership. My unit had a 50 amp (black) manual reset breaker on the red wire going to the inverter switch (round red/green switch in the pics below). Carl’s pic is of a 2019 and it shows a magnum fuse in the same position as my OEM 50 amp resettable CB. This CB is the thing on my unit that was tripping during hydraulic system operation. I replaced it with an 80 amp CB and tightened all connections in the front compartment (because I did not realize it was the inverter wire not the pump wire)and fortunately had no issues until July 4th weekend when the system tripped. The 80 amp on the inverter line tripped first and I went out and reset the blade switch. Then the hydraulic system “paused” (tripped) but reset itself and continued to operate. This tells me it was the OEM 50 amp auto reset CB to the pump. It is the red capped item on the left. In the second pic you can see the red wire going from the red capped breaker on the left to the pump. I ordered another 80 amp CB yesterday and will replace it this week before we leave this weekend.

I don’t understand why the CB in the inverter line has been tripping - the OEM 50 amp and the replacement 80 amp. Again - I replaced the 50 amp on the inverter line because it looked just like the pics that have been shared in the many threads about the hydraulic system tripping (translation: I replaced it out of ignorance and luck I suppose). I did not know what those 2 little red capped things were. However I am not going to reinstall the OEM 50 amp CB...generally things are better now than they were in December.

[glendodom]

Originally Posted by Mikendebbie

I have a 2018 model and I am confused like the original poster. My issues started in month 11 of ownership. My unit had a 50 amp (black) manual reset breaker on the red wire going to the inverter switch (round red/green switch in the pics below). Carl’s pic is of a 2019 and it shows a magnum fuse in the same position as my OEM 50 amp resettable CB. This CB is the thing on my unit that was tripping during hydraulic system operation. I replaced it with an 80 amp CB and tightened all connections in the front compartment (because I did not realize it was the inverter wire not the pump wire)and fortunately had no issues until July 4th weekend when the system tripped. The 80 amp on the inverter line tripped first and I went out and reset the blade switch. Then the hydraulic system “paused” (tripped) but reset itself and continued to operate. This tells me it was the OEM 50 amp auto reset CB to the pump. It is the red capped item on the left. In the second pic you can see the red wire going from the red capped breaker on the left to the pump. I ordered another 80 amp CB yesterday and will replace it this week before we leave this weekend.

I don’t understand why the CB in the inverter line has been tripping - the OEM 50 amp and the replacement 80 amp. Again - I replaced the 50 amp on the inverter line because it looked just like the pics that have been shared in the many threads about the hydraulic system tripping (translation: I replaced it out of ignorance and luck I suppose). I did not know what those 2 little red capped things were. However I am not going to reinstall the OEM 50 amp CB...generally things are better now than they were in December.

----------------------------
I spoke with the Keystone/Montana Owners Customer Service today about the question of the T-Fuse strip on the inverter line versus my trailer originally having a 25 amp breaker. She advised since I was only running a residential refrigerator that the 25 amp breaker was all that was required versus the T-Fuse strip? I guess that means if we wanted to do otherwise we are on our own!

[WeBeFulltime]

Originally Posted by carl n susan

The RV uses two circuit beakers (originally both are 59 amp unless someone has changed one as recommended).

The inverter does *NOT* use a self resetting circuit breaker. It uses a 300 amp fusible link. It looks completely different than the self resetting cb. It is the long thing on the left is the picture below. If you did change the fuse to a 50 amp cb I can see why the inverter is having problems.

My 2018.5 doesn't have a fusible link like this going to the inverter. It has a resettable breaker.

[Mikendebbie]

The mystery continues...we were loading up a few items last night for an upcoming trip and I was in the basement compartment. Looked up and the inverter was off. Checked the 80 amp circuit breaker that is on the inverter wire and it was tripped. I reset it and inverter came on fine. Have no idea when it tripped. I am plugged into shore power. I plan to start paying more attention to this situation to figure out what activity trips the inverter line. I will call magnum today and see if they can help.

[gjennings]

Following

[ChuckS]

Sure sounds like inverter is not wired correctly. 300 amp fuse is what should be online from battery to inverter DC input

[Arkware]

Mikendebbie,

Have to agree with ChuckS. On my 2015 w/1000w inverter I have a 150a breaker.

Your 2018 should have a 2000w inverter and 300a breaker.

I hope you kept the old one.....

[Mikendebbie]

I have a Magnum CSW 1012 inverter (1000 watt). The OEM circuit breaker on the inverter line was a 50 amp. I called Magnum yesterday and the guy was puzzled why they (Keystone) would have installed a 50 amp CB on the inverter wire/line. I would be curious if any 2018 and older models have an in-line fuse or the circuit breaker. He said they make 125 watt and 200 watt in-line fuses, and the inverter is rated for 150 watts - so the 125 watt inline fuse would work. Then he told me the manf suggested retail price for a 200 watt in-line fuse was $85 but they do not sell direct. You have to get it thru the dealer. Not sure why he gave me a price for a 200 watt when he told me I needed the 125 watt fuse.

There is a pic in this thread (post #3) of a Magnum in-line fuse from a 2019 Monte, but I cannot read the watt size.

Generally - things are working better now with the 80 amp CB I (accidentally) put on the inverter line. I will put the Magnum in-line fuse on my "some day" list. After reading these pump threads - I suspect my inverter fuse popping and the hydraulic pump-stall problem were unrelated. I probably solved my pump issues when I tightened all of the connections. Now I know to check the inverter while in transit an make sure the CB has not popped.

Carl Youngren has been helping me figure this out via some back and forth emails. I did this sketch (attached) of the spidersweb of wire in my front compartment. I am not sure how or where I would install an 80 amp CB on the stuff that feeds the hydraulic pump. Forgive the "technical terms" such as "big red wire" or "small white wire".

[rohrmann]

The way your drawing is done, you have no breaker protection to the hydraulic pump. You show the big red wire from the battery, hitting the breaker and going to the pump, all on the same terminal, so not going through the breaker.

[Mikendebbie]

If you look at the pic in post #3 above I believe it is the same. It does not make sense to me. I don’t understand how the two auto reset CBs are suppose to trip to protect the pump.

[gjennings]

Mikendebbie

That one big black cable goes to your inverter and the other should be going to your frame for grounding.

Originally Posted by Mikendebbie

I have a Magnum CSW 1012 inverter (1000 watt). The OEM circuit breaker on the inverter line was a 50 amp. I called Magnum yesterday and the guy was puzzled why they (Keystone) would have installed a 50 amp CB on the inverter wire/line. I would be curious if any 2018 and older models have an in-line fuse or the circuit breaker. He said they make 125 watt and 200 watt in-line fuses, and the inverter is rated for 150 watts - so the 125 watt inline fuse would work. Then he told me the manf suggested retail price for a 200 watt in-line fuse was $85 but they do not sell direct. You have to get it thru the dealer. Not sure why he gave me a price for a 200 watt when he told me I needed the 125 watt fuse.

There is a pic in this thread (post #3) of a Magnum in-line fuse from a 2019 Monte, but I cannot read the watt size.

Generally - things are working better now with the 80 amp CB I (accidentally) put on the inverter line. I will put the Magnum in-line fuse on my "some day" list. After reading these pump threads - I suspect my inverter fuse popping and the hydraulic pump-stall problem were unrelated. I probably solved my pump issues when I tightened all of the connections. Now I know to check the inverter while in transit an make sure the CB has not popped.

Carl Youngren has been helping me figure this out via some back and forth emails. I did this sketch (attached) of the spidersweb of wire in my front compartment. I am not sure how or where I would install an 80 amp CB on the stuff that feeds the hydraulic pump. Forgive the "technical terms" such as "big red wire" or "small white wire".