Tow Vehicle Questions

[F3fifty]

Originally Posted by TLightning

F3fifty...there is no relationship between your truck's GVWR and the RV's GVWR. Key items for 5th wheel computations are pin weight and GCWR. The problem with the 250/2500 trucks (diesels) is they are within GCWR limits, but over pin weight (truck GVWR).

Actual tow capacity...GCWR minus the tow vehicle's actual weight when ready to tow.

TLightning.... reread my post, I was referring to the relationship between a GVW F250 to a F350. In my case I'm under the GCWR and if my Montana weighed in excess of 14,000 I would have a F350 DRW.

[vipermanden]

I like how this discussion is going. I have a bag of popcorn and am enjoying the discussion like a good movie! :-) I am pretty sure you guys are accomplishing one thing that has never been done before, and that is making people on the fence about buying a SRW or DRW, convinced to play it safe, and not be flirting with how close they are to their limits, to just go ahead and get the DRW! :-)

[speedster100]

Perhaps, but for me a DRW is not in the cards, hate the looks of them, won't fit in the garage, pain in the arse to manover, less fuel mileage and more to maintain. But the conversation might just point out the fact that the "ratings" mean little to nothing other than to a some who try to scare people into going bigger for no real reason.

[vipermanden]

Yeah, you are right, the Ford and Chevy dually trucks, still look like they just bolted on fenders to cover the extra wheels. The thing I liked about the RAM, was the whole side of the long bed is one smooth fender that actually was made to look like it was made to have dual rear wheels. I also like the 31,300 pound towing capacity mine has with the Cummins Turbo and Aisin 6 speed tranny and 4.10 rear end gears. I get 11 mpg towing the loaded 3820FK Monty. and 17 mpg not towing. Driving it is easy, but you are right, it won't fit in my garage, but neither would a SRW long bed truck.

[Virginia Young]

Where are you guys getting the 17,000 lbs for the Montana? We have the wide body Big Sky and had it weighed FULLY LOADED FOR FULL-TIMING and it came in under 17,000. No way that Montana will weigh that much. Big Sky has a washer, dryer, packed basement and every cabinet full. Now granted, we don't tow with full tanks, but still. I just find it hard to believe the Montana would weigh that much. We had a 3/4 ton when we bought it and traded for a dually, because of the pin-weight. (It was 1,000 over.) The 3900FB we had prior was fine on the 2014 RAM 2500.

[Virginia Young]

I pulled my sheet from when we had the camper and truck weighed at the National Rally. They had us weigh with a full tank of fuel, all passengers (including the dog) in the cab. They did a detailed weigh-in with scales on each wheel. We first weighed the truck only, then hooked up the fiver and weighed both. Four scales for the truck and four for the camper. The trailer weighed 16,500. That's a Big Sky Loaded for full-time living. The pin weight was 3,900.

[speedster100]

Not sure where someone indicated a Montana was 17000 but my 2015 CC SRW 2500HD has a 5th wheel towing capacity of 17,100 ? I suspect the Montana toyhauler might have a GRVW of greater than 17,000 though. The 3790RD is just over 16000 but in reality mine isn't near that weight.

[Todd727]

Originally Posted by vipermanden

Yeah, you are right, the Ford and Chevy dually trucks, still look like they just bolted on fenders to cover the extra wheels. The thing I liked about the RAM, was the whole side of the long bed is one smooth fender that actually was made to look like it was made to have dual rear wheels. I also like the 31,300 pound towing capacity mine has with the Cummins Turbo and Aisin 6 speed tranny and 4.10 rear end gears. I get 11 mpg towing the loaded 3820FK Monty. and 17 mpg not towing. Driving it is easy, but you are right, it won't fit in my garage, but neither would a SRW long bed truck.

On the flip side, the Ford and GM guys only have to replace a bolt on fender if they get damaged. The RAM is the whole side of the bed. One looks cool, two are serviceable.

[Bad Moon]

Here is a good page that describes the SAE J2807 procedure that GM, Ford and Ram use in determining the towing capacity. Not just engine/transmission. The document detailing the test procedures and requirements is 27 pages long ! I presume GM will match or exceed Ford and Ram ratings in the next redesign (2018?).

http://www.trucktrend.com/how-to/tow...-the-standard/

[warsw]

Originally Posted by Bad Moon

Here is a good page that describes the SAE J2807 procedure that GM, Ford and Ram use in determining the towing capacity. Not just engine/transmission. The document detailing the test procedures and requirements is 27 pages long ! I presume GM will match or exceed Ford and Ram ratings in the next redesign (2018?).

http://www.trucktrend.com/how-to/tow...-the-standard/

Interesting read. It's surprising that a DRW is held to a lesser standard on some of the test than a SRW. I wonder why that is?

[warsw]

I also thought this was interesting:




In addition to avehicle’s base curb weight, the “Tow Vehicle Total Weight” (TVTW) for testingfor ¾- and 1-ton trucks allocates 150 pounds for the driver, 150 pounds for apassenger, the weight of all tow package equipment, and 100 pounds of optionalequipment (hitch ball, weight distribution bars, and such) split evenly betweenthe front and rear axles. The chassis content required (suspension, steering,brakes, and so on) is “immaterial to this section as long as it does not affectpropulsion/powertrain selection or final drive ratio.”

[whiterose]

Originally Posted by speedster100

So how does a manufacturer set the towing/capacity rates ? What's the criteria difference on the exact same truck but a year apart ??? Same equipment, same everything yet thousands of pounds difference ? Makes no sense ............

For 2016 Ford and GM adopted a National Standard for vehicle towing weights, don't know about Dodge. Effect of this is that while the vehicle didn't change as far as brakes, axles, springs, the towing capacity was greatly reduced. Agreed it makes no sense. In my case I was looking for a 2016 2500, went with a 2015 2500.

[vipermanden]

Todd,

True about plastic bolt ons being replaced easily, but i would rather look cool, and let my insurance replace the whole side if anything happens! :-)

[bigred715]

In 2001 I bought a F-250 Ford 4x4 extended cab diesel Ford. The GVW on the truck was 8800#. For a little bit more I could have bought the F-350 with 9900# GVW. After having a 92 Nissan pickup 2WD I thought this HUGE truck should tow anything according to the salesman. (mistake on my part). The next year bought a 2001 2880 Montana, 3 slide with Onan generator and had to put air bags to get bumper "off" the ground. After loading and weighing on scales, Iwas over GVW by 1000#. Not enough truck. Should have bought the F-350 to start with. The truck was totaled in Canada in 2005 with a head on collision with a Dodge Colt minus the trailer.

[Todd727]

Originally Posted by whiterose

For 2016 Ford and GM adopted a National Standard for vehicle towing weights, don't know about Dodge. Effect of this is that while the vehicle didn't change as far as brakes, axles, springs, the towing capacity was greatly reduced. Agreed it makes no sense. In my case I was looking for a 2016 2500, went with a 2015 2500.

It makes a lot of sense if you consider that they used to go out and just guess what "felt" good. Load up a trailer and see if they felt it handled a hill and stopped "ok." Then they waited until other manufacturers published numbers, or they published theirs and when they got trumped, they changed the numbers. Remember, GCWR isn't published on the stickers, so changing the tow rating is as simple as publishing the tow guide. That's also why they'd publish the numbers early in a model year, but the tow guides wouldn't come out until much later.

[TLightning]

Tow ratings are not the key factor with diesel trucks and 5th wheels. Virtually all diesel pickups will "pull" all Montanas. What they won't do is carry the pin weight with out being, is some cases, way over weight.

[RisingEagle]

Not an attempt to (slightly) derail the conversation, but many of these "weight-debates" I come across - here and other boards - are 250x vs 350x. The dually-option is an obvious driving/lifestyle/capacity selection; but if you need a dually, you probably should know that already (15k and above trailer, 4k payload in bed, or whatever your personal metric is)

When I was buying my truck, I wanted something that could carry (and pull) a pretty decent 5th wheel, but also serve as a daily driver. I think I considered a 2500 for about 30 seconds; as soon as I saw the price difference between a 2500 and a 3500 was pretty trivial in the scope of things (under 3k for a 50-60k truck) for identically-equipped trucks, it didn't seem to be the place I would want to cut a corner. I'd rather give up leather seats or something than give up doubling my towing capacity (even if it's only on paper, or only advertised numbers, or what-have-you)

So my question - why do people who go to buy new trucks not just go with a 350x? It can't be the price. i mean, I know dealers try to cater to all kinds, but why even bother selling different (250x vs 350x) trucks if they are so close to being the same? My 3500 doesn't ride much different at all than a same-equipped 2500, and it has more capability. I get the 150x thing, but with 'work' trucks, especially these two models, I'm not sure why we let dealers continue to deal these out.

In my mind, it always wind up with someone being stuck with an under-capable truck.

[speedster100]

At the time I bought my 2015 CC SRW 2500HD it was due to availability of equipment and trucks, there were not any 3500HD's other than a couple WT's on the lots.... As is the case right now as I'm looking to buy the new GMC or Chevy 3500HD SRW CC with the pkg I want and they just aren't out there. They can order one but it will be 10 - 16 weeks delivery and they want my truck now as they are wholesaling the Canadian Trucks to the USA due to the dollar difference. I won't go without a truck so I've comprimised on the exterior colour now but they are still looking to try and find something on a lot..... I'm betting that is the reasoning for many anyway... If I don't get one now with the incentive program running and the current mileage on mine allowing for a good pricing on trade I likely will just keep mine for the next 10 yrs like my last LBZ duramax. My truck handles the 3790RD just fine but sure would like to have the new HP & Torque of the new ones that just came out.

[The Bone]

You can get a F250/350 SRW with the same 10,000 payload You can also get a F350 with the 11,500 payload package in a SRW
You only jump when you go DRW then the truck capacity goes way up.
When I got mine they said that they were the same truck which was true but they couldnt get a F350 with the 11,500 package for me in the SRW configuration.
A DRW only comes with a 8 foot bed and if you add the crew cab than it's as long as a bus and just as wide. Thats why I didn't go there.

[Todd727]

I order my trucks. Too much money to not get EXACTLY what I want. No compromises. I bet they will still want you truck in 3 months.