U-bolts, TOO CLOSE for Comfort - Page 4 - Montana Owners Club

8e3k0 · 09-22-2009, 03:36 AM

These half inch U-bolts on the 7000 lb axles are only grade five quality and will likely stretch before shearing or breaking. This is because of the length of the U and its curvature (a lot of length). In the auto industry the U-bolts are of grade 8 quality and will not stretch as easily plus torque values are a lot higher. Good ole quality and quality control in the RV industry can be a variable to non existence.

simonsrf · 09-22-2009, 05:44 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by 8e3k0

.............. Good ole quality and quality control in the RV industry can be a variable to non existence.

Very Good Point!!!

richfaa · 09-22-2009, 09:08 AM

We had the opportunity to have our rigs weighed here at the fall rally and it was a eye opener to many of us, myself included. Our 06 3400 weighed in at 15,840lbs. Axle load 12,925..pin weight 1915... We were under GCWR 22385K.. so I never noticed the over weight 3400 at the flying J scales. That means we were 1865 lbs over on our 6K axles. We had the IS system installed which are rated at 7K per unit and we were still 500lbs over. Just maybe us running WAY overweight had something to do with our failure.. Many MOC'er were a bit surprised at the weights.

ERROR>>>>>ERROR..the pin weight was 2915..NOT 1915

8e3k0 · 09-22-2009, 09:55 AM

Likely the IS Mor-Ryde system may be heavier than the original leaf spring system. Any specs for weight comparisons? Also there is no reason as to why the suspension systems don't allow room for the excess weight in a RV. Again when I compare our 30 foot goose neck that is rated at 20,000 lbs and has two 10,000 lb dual wheel full floating axles with heavy duty springs ( actual 8 tire ratings total to 24,000lbs plus); I cringe when I look at the little wee shackles, 1 3/4 inch wide springs, and single wheels, and tires that barely meet the load demand to continuously carry all that weigh at 60 to 70 miles an hour down the road with our personal valuables inside. I guess suspensions don't sell when showing a RV; it's your problem later on as you pull your unit on a shoe string of reliability. No safety standards, no guidelines, so minumum standards are allowed to keep prices down and put the client at risk. Sorry for the harp, but when I see just the problems here on this forum with suspensions, think of the all the other RVs out there that are grossly overloaded and a time bomb on our highway systems.

Exnavydiver · 09-22-2009, 11:37 AM

My original post was to inform folks what I found and to have them check for similar situations and to make sure everything was within specs. It was not designed to shoot off into the realm of RV industry bashing and QC issues. I was trying to put forth a straight forward explanation as to what I found on MY rig and to have others add this item to their pre trip checks... Dave

HamRad · 09-22-2009, 02:30 PM

Dave,
Thanks for the information. I have added that to my list of things to check! Man! That list is getting too long!

Thanks for your posting about this issue.

Dennis

richfaa · 09-22-2009, 02:40 PM

Just to be fair..The Dexter book says to check torque every 6K miles. I never read the book..I never checked the torque. It turned out we were 1865 lbs over weight. Could be that if I had read the manual and knew what we weighed the issues may never have happened????? Now far be it from me to suggest that I may share the fault..It was 100% Dexters fault..

Exnavydiver · 09-22-2009, 02:45 PM

LOL, That's more like... Dave

8e3k0 · 09-22-2009, 07:18 PM

Sorry Dave, will stay on topic or stay away. Just trying to relate experiences and what we've come accross, but can refrain from the off topic. No bashing intended. Thanks

washley1 · 09-23-2009, 03:44 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

IS = independent suspension..see the Mor Ryde web site for information. Yes ` higher priced brands like Carriage"Royals" use the IS system OEM.

Rich, Not just SOB's; when I had my Big Sky built last fall, Mor Ryde IS and pin box were options that I had done as original. Being a novice 5er, I am glad that we did it! Thanks to all for the things we have learned here!

Tom S. · 09-23-2009, 07:32 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

We had the opportunity to have our rigs weighed here at the fall rally and it was a eye opener to many of us, myself included. Our 06 3400 weighed in at 15,840lbs. Axle load 12,925..pin weight 1915... We were under GCWR 22385K.. so I never noticed the over weight 3400 at the flying J scales. That means we were 1865 lbs over on our 6K axles. We had the IS system installed which are rated at 7K per unit and we were still 500lbs over. Just maybe us running WAY overweight had something to do with our failure.. Many MOC'er were a bit surprised at the weights.

ERROR>>>>>ERROR..the pin weight was 2915..NOT 1915

Since your new axles are rated at 7K each and the combined axles weighted in at 12,925, you are under weight by 1,075 lbs, not over weight. And don't forget that pin weight is carried by the truck - not the trailer.

richfaa · 09-24-2009, 06:13 AM

That is true....However when the camper is NOT on the truck(like now) it weighs 15,840lbs. We were also over on our tire ratings (E rated tires) Our GVWR with the new suspension is now 15,500lbs. We were 15,840lbs. Since we were out 4 days without water hookups we left home with 60 gal of fresh water so that is @ 480lbs so we are a few lbs under. We need to lose weight.. The scales do not lie.

skypilot · 09-24-2009, 07:56 AM

Rich: Ah, but when not hooked up, the pin weight (plus or minus a bit) is carried by the front landing gear. I would hazard a guess and say that, if the trailer was perfectly level when hooked up and weighed, then the weight on the tires would not change when unhooked and leveled -- not materially any way. Bottom line -- I have a feeling you are no different than I, I carry some stuff that I could probably leave behind (but something in the back of my feeble head keeps saying I might need it later.

richfaa · 09-24-2009, 09:57 AM

OK... If I took the camper to a scale and unhooked from the truck and left it there on the front landing legs what would the scale read????

Tom S. · 09-24-2009, 11:23 AM

Rich, that would depend on whether the landing gear was on the scale or not. In other words, if the landing gear is off the scale, the reading would not be the same as if the landing gear were on the scale. True trailer weight would be with the entire trailer - including the landing gear - on the scale. If the landing gear were off the scale, it would also depend on how much weight the gear was supporting. You can actually change the weight on each axle if you raise and lower the gear enough to transfer the weight.

If, for the sake of argument, you set the trailer on the scales with no other support except the axles, you are correct, the entire weight of the trailer is on the axles and it's over the rating of both axles. I can't think of a time when the front of my trailer wasn't supported by either the truck or the landing gear though, so the pin weight should be deducted from the total weight.

Or did I miss what you were asking???

richfaa · 09-24-2009, 11:36 AM

I mean if the entire camper is setting on the scales like it is seting here on site 418. he landing gear is on the scale along with the rest of the camper. I understand that we are pulling 12,925lbs down the road because the pin weight is on the truck.

exav8tr · 09-24-2009, 12:50 PM

Rich, This whole weight thing is based on Center of Gravity, or CG for short. Take the case of a light airplane, IF I load the airplane with ALL the cargo to the rear of the plane, my nose and nose gear would probably raise up off the ground, IF I move some weight up front, I have not decreased the total weight, I have just redistributed it. There are things like moment and arm that come into play here. In our trailers, if the wheels and landing gear are on the scale you will get a total weight. If you weigh with the wheels on the scale and the landing gear off you will get a reduced weight, however, it will not be the same if you weigh with the trailer hitched to the TV because the CG is different. The only way to get a true axle weight is to weigh the trailer wheels while the trailer is connected to the truck with the truck wheels OFF the scale. The angle of the dangle comes into play also, as stated above, the higher your trailer in front the more weight is transferred to the rear wheels and the rear axle. This is why, when you went to MorRyde to have the IS installed, they first measured the distance between front and rear of trailer to the ground, so they could put spacers in to make your rig perfectly level from front to back, thus allowing even weight and wear on your tires. As you move down the road you are pulling the total weight of the trailer, it's just that some of the total weight is supported by the truck (Pin weight) and some by the trailer (Axle weight).

Hope this clears it up....

Tom S. · 09-24-2009, 01:38 PM

If the pin and the landing jacks were located even, then the weight on either would be the same, within reason. Since the jacks are located further back, I don't know how much weight they relieve from the tires, but I'd bet it's enough to get you back under the axle limit. Too bad you can't get the trailer weighed at the jacks!

richfaa · 09-25-2009, 02:22 AM

I was never confused.The total 3400 weight( GVWR) was 15,840 lbs. Distribute the weight anyway we want it but it is still going to weigh 15,840lbs.. The folks at Mor Ryde got me within 1/2 inch front to rear when installing the IS system. The truck carries the pin weight true. but this thing setting here on site 418 weighs 15,480lbs..in fact more because I am in it and we purchased much stuff. On the 3400 the galley side is heaver because there is more stuff on that side. The axle rating were all well within specs.. The only rating that was out was the E rated tire ratings..3086 per tire. We had over 500 lbs of liquid on board so that will bring us down to under rated camper GVWR and it would also effect the tire load. Total weight truck and camper was 22,385 well under the rated 23,500 for the Ford. It was good to get all the weights//we now know were we stand..for sure.

8e3k0 · 09-25-2009, 06:37 AM

Rich, now that you have a new and heavier laod carrying suspension, you'll have to go with 17.5 wheels and tires to get that load under control. With suspension systems it seems to never end when we're near that max limit.
This would be good discussion for a new topic. I know when we weighed our Monty just on the axles we are running on the line with tire/wheel load rating. I've got those logged in the truck.

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