Scared of buying any brand-new or used

[Glenn and Lorraine]

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

With the new regulations being proposed and implemented it looks like the days of the big tow vehicle and big camper are over. I would look for penalties for those who have them. By 2016 it will be over.

I couldn't disagree more. As Kathy and Dave pointed out Since the TV's are used for business purposes, more than for RV'ing, I expect that they will either be exempt (along with other trucks), or they'll get more fuel-efficient engines.
As far as big campers, that to will continue. Maybe not in the Class As but most assuredly in the towables and when we say towable we are talking 5ers.

There is way to much "Doomsday" talk going around. Sorry Doomsdayers but I have a lot more faith in the United States recovering. It may take years but it will happen.
I feel that just because we have a new President some of you feel that this turnaround should happen overnight. Well it ain't gonna happen. It took many years to put us in this predicament and it will take many years to get us out.

[richfaa]

It has nothing to do with recovering or faith in he good old USA. The new regulation announced this week call for smaller more efficient motors and lighter vehicles. (by the way I agree, the environment is more important) Big commercial trucks may be exempted but we do not drive big commercial trucks. It will become less cost effective for the auto industry to build the Rv type vehicle's and the RV companies are already going to lighter weight units. The new legislation does not dictate the size of the vehicle or motor just sets environmental standards which will determine engine size. Auto companies are now in a period of change tring to survive. The less- profitable portions of the industry are going away. The Rv 'er and the vehicle he now uses for the larger campers are not a big segment of sales. Never were.

Indications of what the future will bring to the auto industry are all around us in all of the media. There are now taxes on "luxury" items including vehicles. IMO those who choose to use the the vehicles that do not conform to the new standards, will pay the price. Rv'ing will change along with the rest of the nation and ecomomy.

[Emmel]

Got to agree with Glenn, the rv industry also uses the same truck as the nations farmers and businesses do. Therefore, they will still produce these vehicles, maybe more enviornmentally acceptable, but they will still be needed. To stop building trucks to tow rvs would criple the rest of the nations way of making a living.
Remember Rich, this is just MHO!

[DarMar]

Guess you could say that we have hit the wall so to speak and with that must come change. Change is good, no sense resisting it, no matter, WE WILL find a way to enjoy the rving lifestyle just maybe not moving around quite as much. We already have many more stationary rvers in our summer park that don't even own a tow vehicle, period. If they decide to move to another park they hire someone to do the job. Hey, when I think of what it costs us to own our tow vehicle year round, well it really doesn't make a whole lot of economic sense! We will be looking to replace our daily vehicle in the next 6 months or so, we will just make the best decision at the time and make the best of it.

[kerry]

Didn't mean to sound like a Doomsdayer. Kerry

[richfaa]

"it looks like the days of the big tow vehicle and big camper are over" I did not say they would stop building trucks and R's

"The new legislation does not dictate the size of the vehicle or motor just sets environmental standards which will determine engine size."

There will be smaller, More fuel efficient, more environmentally friendly motors . The new standards call for the MPG for Trucks to be 30mg by 2010. What do you think it will take to get my F-350,CC/LB,4x4 dually to 30 MPG and still tow he 3400.

"Rv'ing will change along with the rest of the nation and economy"

My guess is that we will not be able to buy a big truck to pull a big camper that gets 10/11 MPG towing and 15/18 solo by 2016 unless we pay a "environmental fee" Lets keep watch on the present big truck market... Dodge is right now out of he picture.Will anyone pick up the big truck market? G.M is on the verge of Bankruptcy. What will happen to their big truck market.... Ford is in big trouble, They just re opened Ford Engine plant 1 in Brookpark, Ohio and hundreds are back to work producing he new small fuel efficient gas motor for small cars..there is the future. The above are not Rich's views. I listened to the presidents talk and I agee with it. The media is abuzz with commentary how that will effect the industry and the user.. There is doomsdays talk(which by the way came to pass on the economy) then there is the head in the sand approach..

[dsprik]

Just wondering if we RVers who tow 5vers/TTs are that insignificant to our legislature that they will legislate us right out of the vehicles we need. They may protect the construction business/farming segments of pickup buyers, but we do not have a "business" or "farm" which would - and already do to an extent with tax exemptions/write-offs - protect us RVers. Maybe we will have to incorporate or get a garden going to keep from paying huge penalties for our tow vehicles.

Or are we a large enough economic impact that we might be able to get recognized by Congress as an important segment of the population who stimulates the economy by being on the road (tourism) and therefore needs some sort of a "bailout" to keep us RVing?

Just food for thought...

[Art-n-Marge]

Hey, don't ignore the RVers. We stopped Maine from disallowing overnight parking!

Things will recover like they always do. What we need to fix is the media making mountains out of molehills.

Hey Bingo and Cathy. In about twenty three years you won't need a TV to tow your Montana, you'll be beamed to your new location. Beam me up, Bingo!

[Glenn and Lorraine]

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

It has nothing to do with recovering or faith in he good old USA. The new regulation announced this week call for smaller more efficient motors and lighter vehicles. (by the way I agree, the environment is more important) Big commercial trucks may be exempted but we do not drive big commercial trucks. It will become less cost effective for the auto industry to build the Rv type vehicle's and the RV companies are already going to lighter weight units. The new legislation does not dictate the size of the vehicle or motor just sets environmental standards which will determine engine size. Auto companies are now in a period of change tring to survive. The less- profitable portions of the industry are going away. The Rv 'er and the vehicle he now uses for the larger campers are not a big segment of sales. Never were.

Indications of what the future will bring to the auto industry are all around us in all of the media. There are now taxes on "luxury" items including vehicles. IMO those who choose to use the the vehicles that do not conform to the new standards, will pay the price. Rv'ing will change along with the rest of the nation and ecomomy.

We keep refering to our TVs as an RVer ONLY type truck. We got to let go of that ego trip that we are some exclusive group of vehicle users and that the 3/4 and 1 ton vehicles are built primarily for us. That just ain't so.
The Rv 'er and the vehicle he now uses for the larger campers are not a big segment of sales. The RVer maybe just a small segment BUT there are many many users out there of the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. You seem to forget all the farmers, contractors, etc that also you these same vehicles. I would venture a bet there are a lot more of those users than there are RVers. It's that huge segment along with the RVers that will keep our type vehicles in production for many years to come.

BTW-Rich, I quoted you with this reply BUT I am in no way signaling you out. There are others that need this same message.

Rich- This is directed at your statement

quote:The new standards call for the MPG for Trucks to be 30mg by 2010.

Yes this maybe correct BUT they talking AVERAGES. While it may not be concievable to get 30 MPG in the 250s and 350s it is very conceivable to get 35 to 40 MPG out of the smaller trucks such as the Rangers, S-10, Colorados, etc and yes even the 150s. This is the way the regulations work. Always did and always will.
This is the way they were able to produce the larger gas guzzlers such as full size autos, Minivans and SUVs. So long as the compacts and mid size provided the industry with high MPG the larger vehicles could still get lower MPG. It all comes down to AVERAGES.

One last thing; You stated

quote:Indications of what the future will bring to the auto industry are all around us in all of the media.

When the day comes when I start believing in what the media has to say is the day I start believing in the Easter Bunny and Santa. The media was, is and always will be blowing things way out of proportion. The stories we see on TV and read in the papers all depends on whether they are right or left wingers. The big media guys such as CNN, FOX, ABC, NBC, CBS, etc have proven this to me and others so very many times.

I mentioned the word "doomsdayers", the biggest "doomsdayers" by far are the media.

OK, I'll take a break and let others jump in...................

[SlickWillie]

I'm curious to see if GM and Ford go ahead and develop the new small diesel engines. IIRC, they develop massive amounts of hp and torque for their size. They will most likely achieve 25-30 mpg in 1/2 ton trucks. (another weight thread looming) Is it conceivable they could power the HD trucks? I would think perhaps they might be offered eventually. It is going to get interesting to say the least. JMHO

[billhoover]

I would not hesitate to buy a Dodge with the Cummins or the GM with the Duramax. Ford, IMHO, has been flaky since they quit making the 7.3...the 6.0 and 6.4 don't have the good track records of the Cummins and Duramax.