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06-02-2013, 02:08 PM
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#21
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Montana Master
Join Date: May 2003
Location: New Bern
Posts: 4,294
M.O.C. #311
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The first rule of thumb I use is to go down a hill at the same speed as I climbed it or would climb it.
Second is to use the same gear, for manual transmission.
With my automatic, not a Ford, I actually use one gear lower so the RPMs are 500 from red line. The higher the RPMs the better the engine breaking.
Then when my exhaust break kicks in I know I have the ability to slow down.
I hope this helps.
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06-02-2013, 02:11 PM
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#22
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
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CDl holders. Remember "stab braking"on downhill grades.
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06-02-2013, 02:40 PM
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#23
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
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What rpm is it running when it is screaming? The V8's have a higher rpm redline and will run higher rpm both uphill and when tow/haul is downshifting to hold back the speed. My 2005 Ford used to scream at 3800 rpm or even a little more but redline was about 4200 rpm. My Dodge (2007) is an inline six with a redline of 3200 rpm so no way is going to get that high. Today we came down a very long and steep grade with tow/haul, exhaust brake, and cruise all on. We started at the top at 60 mph (cruise setting - 55 mph speed limit on us in California).. anyhow, the truck held it and the Montana to 63 mph at 2500 rpm in fourth gear. In other words, it downshifted twice. I do not even touch the brake in those situations unless perhaps we have a hairpin curve coming up. No need to. The tow/haul and exhaust brake handle things just fine. All touching the brakes does otherwise is shut off the cruise. I suspect what you're seeing is normal for the V8 diesel. They're built to handle the higher rpm.
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06-02-2013, 02:51 PM
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#24
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Montana Master
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Okeechobee
Posts: 2,150
M.O.C. #11206
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Rainer
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Phil P
Ford lists the Exhaust brake as an Option. Check to see of your truck has this option.
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I believe that was on the older engine versions (pre-2011) Ford diesels. Here's the YouTube video from Ford about the engine braking when in the Tow/Haul mode:
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The 2013 specifications defiantly mark the exhaust brake as an Option.
__________________
2009 Montana 3665RE
2009 Duramax 3500 DRW quad cab
personal web page https:// www.sallyscoffees.com
If you get a page not available then remove the "s" after HTTP
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06-02-2013, 03:43 PM
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#25
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Copperas Cove
Posts: 1,426
M.O.C. #12096
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Hmmmmmm I love my exhaust brake......just wish it would stay on, I think they got it backwards..it should come on automatically and you should have to push the button to turn it off....
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06-02-2013, 04:09 PM
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#26
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: West Sand Lake
Posts: 267
M.O.C. #10232
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by sreigle
What rpm is it running when it is screaming?
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Never looked down at the tach. Just never heard it wind up as fast and loud as it did going down that hill.
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06-02-2013, 05:45 PM
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#27
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Land O Lakes
Posts: 932
M.O.C. #9053
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by steves
I will strongly disagree with the last sentence! ALWAYS have it in tow/haul if the trailer is on. It is designed to work that way, and in my experience it does.
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I agree...I meant to say don't leave the truck in cruise control on a downhill descent. Can I be forgiven?
[/quote]
Absolutely forgiven! I, of course, NEVER make such errors...
__________________
Walt and Carol Ashley, with fond memories of Bailey the Chesapeake! Land O Lakes, FL
2009 Big Sky 365REQ 10th Anniversary Edition
2008 Ford F350 King Ranch Super Duty
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06-02-2013, 05:50 PM
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#28
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Land O Lakes
Posts: 932
M.O.C. #9053
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I will add that last spring when we crossed the Rockies west bound out of Denver I had the tow/haul and the cruise control engaged. I set the cruise at 55, and it held us at 60 to 65 on the downhill run, which was quite steep. I thought it did a great job.
__________________
Walt and Carol Ashley, with fond memories of Bailey the Chesapeake! Land O Lakes, FL
2009 Big Sky 365REQ 10th Anniversary Edition
2008 Ford F350 King Ranch Super Duty
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06-03-2013, 07:29 PM
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#29
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Montana Master
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Murrieta
Posts: 5,816
M.O.C. #9257
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That's why you should disable CC on hills... if you had it set to 55 and you got up to 60/65, this is because CC is designed to accelerate to keep up to the speed and on downhills as long as you are going faster than 55 it doesn't care and it was the TH holding you back. With CC you can always go faster than the set speed (like when going downhill) in most vehicles.
I have only owned ONE vehicle of many that did not accelerate on downhills with CC - It was a Mercedes Benz S430. When I set the CC speed it stayed there no matter what (uphills, downhills, wind, bad weather, whatever) and it was awesome that it did that. Went cross country with it, about 7,000 miles roundtrip and with the interstates and highways the CC was on all the time. It was set between 60 and 90mph and worked flawlessly. But I never towed a trailer with it. Now back to our world.
I use TH when towing 100% of the time. It'll scream anywhere from 3,000 to 3,500 RPMs depending on the gear it settles on for the uphills and will scream the same on the downhills when I tap the brake to avoid runaway. However, for CC this conditional and only with flatter roads. Steep uphills or downhills and CC are a bad idea to me unless I'm not towing and the hill slopes aren't real long. I love these modern trucks.
None of this should be confused with Hill Descent Control which is the feature reserved for using 4x4 and downhill driving. Similar to TH, the trans and engine work together to keep things going very slow, as opposed to TH which tries to use freeway or road speeds to control things on gradual up or downhills. I believe HDC is strictly for slow travel on very steep downhills. It helps nervous 4x4 drivers become better 4x4 drivers to minimize burning out brakes and doesn't have anything to do with towing or traveling faster speeds.
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06-04-2013, 03:05 AM
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#30
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
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We have not climbed steep grades on a regular basses. We do fancy gap twice a year maybe more.If we set the CC along with the TH on the uphill the CC will attempt to keep it at the set speed say 62 mph meanwhile the TH will be looking for the best gear resulting in downshifts. If we leave the CC engaged we will see increased RPM's and increased turbo temps. The turbo temps will get above 1300 degrees in the CC attempt to hold the speed. That is not , IMO a good thing. By dis engaging the CC we can control the RPM and more importantly the Turbo temps. Our speed will drop to 50mph or so to get the Turbo temps down to a reasonable level. Yes other rigs will fly by me and I could maintain 62 or even 70 if I wanted to. I don't want to as I value my motor more than my Rv'ing Ego. Now IMO the engine brake is a better tool having used it in my driving days but the TH is what we got and it works OK.
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06-04-2013, 05:53 AM
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#31
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Livermore
Posts: 5,146
M.O.C. #1920
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It depends on the flavor of vehicle. I don't want to start a truck war, but on the 2013 Ram they have a two setting exhaust brake. With cruise on, it maintains the set cruise speed in the Smart Brake setting. Our '08 Silverado used the Allison to control speed, but did not have an exhaust brake. In the Silverado manual it talked about it not being a problem if engine rpm's got high in tow haul while the transmission was retarding the vehicle. Each of the trucks is a little different, even between model years.
__________________
Ron and Terrie Ames - MOC #1920/KF0NTA
2021Montana 3230CK Super Solar Legacy Package
2021 Ram 3500 Laramie Longhorn, BIM Charging
4x4, SRW, LB, Crew Cab, Pullrite 3900 Hitch
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06-04-2013, 05:09 PM
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#32
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Lykens
Posts: 545
M.O.C. #11842
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The first time I came down a long hill with a very hard curve at the bottom towing my Trailer with the tow/haul mode on I just about sh** my pants. When going into the corner while braking the trans automatically downshifted into second gear and the engine rpms jumped increasing the engine braking. The truck rear tires started sliding initiating a jackknifing situation. I got off the brakes and disengaged the tow/haul mode and got through the corner. No more tow/haul mode for me under those conditions. I manually select my downshifting. I contacted Ford about this and they told me they did have some complaints about this condition and they were looking at it.
I don't know if the newer trucks do this or maybe Ford changed the downshift program to prevent this.
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06-05-2013, 01:18 AM
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#33
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: West Sand Lake
Posts: 267
M.O.C. #10232
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by kab449
When going into the corner while braking the trans automatically downshifted into second gear and the engine rpms jumped increasing the engine braking. The truck rear tires started sliding initiating a jackknifing situation.
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kab449
WOW, that was a very severe situation! Was it raining or otherwise a slippery condition when that happened?
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06-05-2013, 03:25 PM
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#34
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Lykens
Posts: 545
M.O.C. #11842
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No severe conditions, just a very sharp turn at the bottom that required slowing under 35 mph. At that speed the trans downshifted into second with a sharp increase in engine rpm's and resultant engine braking that caused the loss of rear wheel traction. Like I said: manual downshift for me, no tow haul mode.
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06-06-2013, 01:42 AM
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#35
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: West Sand Lake
Posts: 267
M.O.C. #10232
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Very good to know! TX
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06-08-2013, 06:19 AM
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#36
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Shelburne
Posts: 688
M.O.C. #8693
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When you press the brake pedal to initiate the engine braking, it disengages the CC automatically, no?
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06-09-2013, 09:49 AM
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#37
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Montana Master
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Okeechobee
Posts: 2,150
M.O.C. #11206
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by KathyandDave
When you press the brake pedal to initiate the engine braking, it disengages the CC automatically, no?
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Yes
You said it I was thinking it.
__________________
2009 Montana 3665RE
2009 Duramax 3500 DRW quad cab
personal web page https:// www.sallyscoffees.com
If you get a page not available then remove the "s" after HTTP
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06-09-2013, 01:31 PM
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#38
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Lykens
Posts: 545
M.O.C. #11842
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Phil P
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by KathyandDave
When you press the brake pedal to initiate the engine braking, it disengages the CC automatically, no?
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Yes
You said it I was thinking it.
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No CC on! Tow/Haul mode only. Something completely different.
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06-10-2013, 02:44 AM
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#39
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Montana Master
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Lake Gaston
Posts: 8,773
M.O.C. #12156
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I love the tow/haul. I have found that it works well on declines without jumping gears as long as you control speed with occasional braking. I have found it holds well going down long declines, and at 55 will hold in 4th gear all the way to the bottom of the hill.
__________________
Mike and Lorraine
2002 3655 FL, 2005 3650RK
2010 3665RE, 2015 3910FB
F350 crew cab dually 6.7
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06-10-2013, 03:23 AM
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#40
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Montana Master
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 534
M.O.C. #13378
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by 1retired06
I love the tow/haul. I have found that it works well on declines without jumping gears as long as you control speed with occasional braking. I have found it holds well going down long declines, and at 55 will hold in 4th gear all the way to the bottom of the hill.
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