Artic Package

[Hooker]

quote:Originally posted by danandbetty

Now all I have to do is figure out how to eliminate the cold draft that comes across the floor from under the steps that go to the bedroom. There's a lot of cold air coming in from around the furnace into the belly as well as inside the trailer. Anyone have a newer 3400RL that has solved this problem?

I cut out a piece of brown cardboard and taped it to the back side of the vent under the steps, totally covering it. There are plenty of cracks and crevices in the body...a big vent is not necessary.

[granet]

Rich et al,
We are still in the foothills of the Canadian Rockies and winter has been a snap so far touch wood, You must tweak your arctic package to suit the location you're in-we being in the very cold have stuffed every crack with insulation we could find and we still missed some - so next winter we will solve that problem! All 5vrs and trailers tout their insulation packages but for the most part they are built in Indiana -not a very realistic place for Canadian winters-all in all Montana has done not a bad job!
Regards
Granet
2008-3400 rl

[richfaa]

The main part of the 3400 is OK. the slides need work and we will address that this summer at home.

[Rancher Will]

We live on a ranch in Colorado and use or Monana 3750FL all year round.
Yes it takes propane to heat but we camp when we want to. For Example, we have camped on Rabbit Ears Pass in January, with night temps below Zero. We use our snowmobiles in the winter so we are used to camping in winter. Even in Spring and Fall in the mountains night temps can drop below freezing but we are used to it.
We just dress warm, set the themostat to 65 degrees and use a down blanket on the bed. Actually the temp inside our RV is better at night in the winter than at the same time at our Cow Camps with just a Sheep Herder Stove for heat.
Just plan ahead for cold weather and be safe.

[Bill and Lisa]

sorry if this is a repeat but I have to run and can't get through all 11 pages of responses. Just finished up a weekend in the low 30's. we did not use much propane (less than one tank). We ran the fireplace the whole time and an electric cube heater in the bedroom. What made a big difference on how often the propane heater cycled was the ceiling fan. We ran it in the winter (reverse) mode on slow. it moved the air around without much of a breeze but keep things fairly even with respect to temps. set the thermostat on the propane heater at 69 during the day and 67 at night. Heater kicked in once/twice an hour during the day and every 2 hours at night which was fine by me as I wanted to keep the tanks/water lines from getting too cold. Just my experience.

[Hooker]

As noted earlier, I think the slides are the weak links. The most of air leaks in our 3400 were in and around the slides...very drafty.

[granet]

Rich and Hooker plus Rancher Will,
Fistley Hooker I agree the slides are a major weak link in the warmth of the unit-we stuffed the rubber boots all around with fibreglass but when it got to -47 these areas were still cold next year we will insulate the roofs and underneath with board insulation as we just had insulation around them this year! I have found that our greatest heat loss is around the windows as there is so much glass in a 3400 this was a real problem-we added the plastic window packages to the outside but next year we will double it and do the inside window treatment as well!
I hope these little tit bits of information are of use to any that are braving the winters as we are but as previously stated this unit is a lot better than my previous sob.
Regards
Granet

[Wayne and Carolyn Mathews]

We lived in our 2007 model for over a year up here in Montana, on the back side of a lake and in a canyon where winds frequently hit 35 - 45 (steady) with windgusts hitting 65 - 75 mph occasionally. The year we were in our rig, we had temperatures of -40 to -50 for long stretches at a time. We were comfortable in our Monty, however, with a small space heater, the fireplace, and our central propane heat. However, we did go though a lot of propane. When winter set in for good, we had a large propane tank delivered to our building site and we hooked into that. We were always comfortably warm, although the slideout where the recliners are was a bit cooler than the rest of the rig.

Carolyn

[kcaravelli]

quote:Originally posted by IAMontana

I have to laugh at keystones arctic package in my 06 3650 the put a dedicated heat register at the rear of the tanks in underbelly which consisted of bubble foil between the tanks and bottom board. The water lines to the kitchen were ran right beside the frame rail on the street side not by the heat run. and the slide floor in the living room and kitchen dinette are made of bonded paneling and Styrofoam with a lawyer of bubble foil under the carpet. If I had not known about the way these rigs or any rig with an arctic package for that matter WE WOULD HAVE FROZE UP FOR THE WINTER HERE IN IOWA! What I did to remedy this was to start in the under belly with heat pads on all tanks and I added R30 from front to rear with the bubble foil between the R30 and the bottom board.I also added bubble foil to the frame rails inside the belly all the way around the tanks. As for the water lines to the kitchen I had to make new water lines wrap them with heat tape and insulation. I had to cut out the 1 1/2 drain line that was connected from the kitchen tank to the main drain. I added a vent in to the storage area and relocated the dedicated heat line to the underbelly to the other side where the fresh water draw line is located. The slides are next on the list I will be building all new floors for those 2 floors this spring. We have made it through the winter so far on 1 1/2 100lb bottles of propane all winter and we keep the heat at about 73 are average temp outside has been single digit and below single digit at night. We also used the shrink type window plastic on all the windows and put the vent pillows in the 4 vents and closed off the air's.

And WHY would I buy a Montana if so many people say they have trouble with leaky slides? I am very dissapointed in Montana after reading this thread. On the other hand, I currently own a 33' Itasca Suncruiser Motorhome and we dont' have any problem with freezing water lines in the winter or leaky slides. It does get cold but we just suppliment our heat needs with space heaters. And yes we go through lots of propane also. Maybe I will just ignore the "Artic" package and keep on reading. I still really like Montanas but there is an obvious "built quality" issue that I have never come across other forums. I am really sad to hear all of this because I put an offer down on a 3465SA and found the financing to get it throught but now I'm just going to let it go. This level of quality will just not cut it for me.

[kcaravelli]

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

Most every camper in this C.G is using propane at about the same rate no matter what the price range or brand of RV. The high dollar MH next door is using propane at the same rate we are and had to pull up and get a refill yesterday.

This is interesting. Maybe I will go over to "irv2.com" and poll the various forums. How did you come to this conclusion, have you spoken to different folks or just assume it based on the guy next door. I think this is an important point to find factual information on or at least poll a cross section of folks. Hm...you have me thinking now because this is one of the big reasons I am looking at Montana and now I'm finding the "Artic" package to be nonsense...so why pay for a Montana just to think you will be warmer?
I can find a good floor plan anywhere, cheap too. I can buy propane anywhere. Montana is loosing sales on this thread alone. They might want to chime in here and prove they are keeping us warmer. They point to higher "r" values than some competition but they should prove it with some heat tests. Was 95% sure this morning I would buy a 3465SA. In fact I have a bid on one in NY right now. After reading the many comments from Montana owners in this thread I'm down a few percentage points on the confidence level that this rig will do what I need as a full-timer.

[kcaravelli]

quote:Originally posted by washley1

Not to burst too many bubbles, but the Arctic package has worked great for us. We spent last week. Jan 3 through 10, at Hunting Island State Park in Beaufort, SC. The highs all week rarely got above 40. The lows were from the high teens to low 20's. We had a site on the beach, with little shelter from the wind. We used the stock furnace in our 09 Big Sky 365 REQ, kept it at 70 all during the day and turned it down to 65 for sleeping, and had no problem staying warm. Used the fireplace some, but mostly for ambiance. I realize it will not be enough in the arctic, but we were toasty.

Do you think there might be something specific about the "Big Sky" package that may account for that. I'm not familiar with its advatage over a standard Montana.

[kcaravelli]

quote:Originally posted by washley1

Richfaa, good point. There is very little if any insulation on the slides. All I know is in our week of 17 to 40 degrees we were warm and cozy and did not run the tanks dry.

This might be a good way for someone to make some money. A "Slide Wrap" that one could install when parked that would help with insulation. You could have something reasonbly nice looking that catches on the top near the slide toppers and wraps all the way under the belly of the slide and on up to catch near the opposing slide topper. Hmmm, maybe we could ask Obama for a loan to start this business idea up?

[kcaravelli]

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

They are doing some upgrading on then insulation on the new units. We saw a demonstration of that at the factory at the fall rally. The Arctic package should be better now. However. The slides still hang out there and they do not have the same insulation as the main body. We had some winds in the 15/25 mph area around here yesterdsay and we could feel the draft at the floor level around the slides. We never ran out of propaner just used 1 30 lb bottle in 4 days or less as most everyone did regardless of Rv brand.

That's not the first time I have heard about "draft" around the floor level on slides. I'm really starting to wonder about how well these things are built. We own an 03 Itasca Suncruiser motorhome which is very nice but really a middle of the road Winnie. We have NEVER had draft around any of our slides. Man this is rather bothersome to hear this! The RV Consumers Group ripped Montana for its quality. I did not believe them and wrote to Keystone for a rebuttle. This is getting interesting. I may have to go back to RV Consumers Group and reread. If I keep reading about drafts and leaks in the slides it will definitely impact my decision as a full-timers.

[CaptainRandy]

Hi

Keep in touch, we got a 3750 FL last April and will be wintering in Boulder, WY (south of yellowstone) where it gets sown to -30 on a regular basis.
We'll give ya a blow by blow discription.

[kcaravelli]

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

This is the coldest temps we have been in unfortunately they are in South Central Florida.. 5th Coldest winter in history so they say. We are so excited to be part of this record....not. We have dispelled any myths about the artic package or the warm and toasty package. The slides leak like a sieve. We used 499 KWH of power in Feb.. That is a average of 17.82 kwh per day. Normal usage is @ 7khw.. 5 tanks of Propane.. normal is @ 2 tanks.. Total bill for Propane and power 177.16. We have identified all the serious leaks and have towels stuffed in most of the slide corners. We do stay sort of warm and toasty with the help of the real warm and toasty package.. Socks, slippers, sweat pants and shirts , sweaters and for those hair challanged....caps. We have gone through a 2 litters of good rum and a entire can of hot chocolate to supplement the warm and toasty package.. It helps..

While I'm sure you still very much like and enjoy your Montana, can I ask you to be perfectly frank and tell us whether there are other coaches you feel would do a better job of keeping out the drafts and cold. I'm speaking specifically about slide drafts and build quality. We are looking at the Montana thinking we are getting a better built coach in terms of winter living as full-timers and after reading through this forum I see that is simply not the case. The leaking slides and drafts really point to both design flaws and build quality. So my question to you about whether Montana is the one you would buy again is also addressing those issues.

[kcaravelli]

quote:Originally posted by klefevre

I have not yet picked up my new (2010 3150 RL) unit, but I must say reading all the posts am wondering if I am making the right buying decision. (My other consideration was carriage rvs) Most posts are quite negative about the montys quality. Already signned on the dotted line, so keeping my fingers crossed.

I have not signed yet and now I'm may not. How did you end up finding your Montana to work out for you?

[kcaravelli]

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

I think what you are seeing is that the quality on all brand Rv's is not of the highest. Quality is not job 1 in the RV industry. Your Montana will not be perfect nor will any of the others.We are 46 months of hard use on this guy and we have had some problems but we are still on the road and it is serving us well.

I apoligize in advance for offending you on this one but that is crap! We have a right to expect the kind of quality and lifestyle comfort that is marketed to us. If Keystone can't deliver on it's "perception" of quality in terms of the full-time lifestyle they propose these rigs can handle then we can and should hold their feet to the fire. Your point about quality on all brands does not address the core issue that Keystone implies an "Artic" package can handle the cold and that their rigs are of such a build quality as to be able to stand the wheather....well I for one am getting ready to drop serious cash on a rig and I don't believe we just dump coaches like Excel and Jayco into this discussion and say they don't cut it either. I have not seen this discussion surface yet on either of those rigs but then I haven't seen all discussions.
Again, I apoligize if anyone is offended by my candidness but we have got to hold these companies acccountable when there are folks among us who have in fact invested their life savings based on promises that Keystone may ( and I say may) not be honoring in the way to build coaches and do business...Keystone, I do hope your watching!

[kcaravelli]

quote:Originally posted by Lawman

To be honest, I have not read the four previous pages of posts. However, these rigs leak air like sieves. When cold, we stuff towels, dirty clothes, WalMart bags and anything else we can find, where ever the slide corners meet the frame. Try sitting on the floor...it is very drafty. We run two 1,500 Lasko heaters, they are a big help and not nearly as irritating as the "furnace" cycling on and off every few minutes.

This is absolutely unacceptable build quality. Man I gotta stop reading this forum, I'm getting really negative feelings about Montana reading about their customers experiences here. Really sad stories about the way they build coaches.
If I wanted to leave the door open and feel a draft I would have done it, right?

[kcaravelli]

[quote]quote:Originally posted by CamillaMichael

Personal choices are just that...you make the choice you think is best for you. We shopped a lot before buying our Montana. Is it perfect? NO! But we ae happy with the choice we made; may your choice serve you well, whatever that choice might be.

And after reading this forum I am seriously thinking about pulling my offer on the 3465SA I made yesterday!

[Jim Dickey]

We have used ours down to 17*F and felt no draft at all. Have gotten up to 7" of snow on rig still no drafts. If slides are adjusted correctly you should have no or little draft. Also you here more of the negativies on these fourms then the positive, human nature is to complain not compliment things.