Gas vs Diesel - Montana Owners Club

ken · 04-02-2005, 03:33 AM

Were at the point of changing vehicles and was hoping to get some opinions on going back to GMs 8.1 gasser or staying with another Ford Diesel. With the fuel prices, I am not so sure the extra few cents for diesel fuel and the price of another diesel engine is worth it. What kind of millage are you getting towing your Montana, and do you have the power with the 8.1 engine.
Ken and Velda Taylor
Dahlgren Va
2005 3475 Montana
2000 Ford F350 Diesel

azstar · 04-02-2005, 03:55 AM

Ah, the the dreaded old question of Gas vs Diesel.

The way the costs are going up this is becoming less of a concern, as either way it's going to hurt.

No doubt I for one would buy my V10 gasser again, but now that Dodge has discontinued it, I too am in your boat. We get 8.55 mpg with the V10 if I could get that with the 8.1 that would be my choice.

Do a search on "8.1" I believe there you will find some info on MPG for the 8.1.

Happy Camping

Jeff Heiser · 04-02-2005, 04:48 AM

I have been a gas engine man for a long long time but...Since January I have spent over $2800 for gas (we had a 1999 Chevy 454 Vortec crew cab dually). The other night I had had enough and went looking in ernest. We wound up with a Dodge Cummins Turbo Diesel. Since we picked it up we have been getting between 18 and 24 mpg around town. They say the mpg will only get better over time. Now considering that I was getting 11 max around town 12 to 13 max highway and 7 to 9 max towing a 327RKS TT I think I made the right choice. Everyone I have spoke with have stated I will get 13 mpg or better towing. Since diesel is not much more than regular unleaded I cannot imagine going back to gas even with only owning a diesel for a week.

The arguement has been that when buying a diesel you pay a premium price for the truck; well this we found not to be true. We looked at a Chevy 2500 HD 8.1 crew cab long bed loaded cost was approx. $40K. Dodge HD Diesel Quad Cab long bed 2500 loaded can be purchased for approx $39K. The diesel, in our case gets almost double the mpg than in our old truck for just a few cents more. My math indicated to me to go with the diesel.

Now I have only had the new truck for a week, so any mpg reported now may just be a fluke but...maybe not. What sold us was a test drive. I considered my old truck to be pretty hot. It had all the preformance enhancements etc but one test ride in the Dodge CTD was all it took. The Dodge was the last one for us to test drive and it was the winner. It felt stronger than all the rest. BUT....as I have stated in several other threads there are three things I look at when buying a truck: the deal, how it feels, and does it fit the need. The truck we bought the other night met all three.

Good luck and dont get me wrong I like all the major brands. I bought the Dodge becuase the Dodge folks gave the best deal. Go test drive a diesel and I think you will see what I am talking about.

Jeff Heiser
Merritt Island Florida

FredG · 04-02-2005, 07:20 AM

For towing, I prefer a Diesel. Diesel engines usually provide more torque than an equivalent Gas engine. Also, diesels provide more power at lower RPMs, which is an advantage when towing, especially if you are starting up a hill from a standstill or your rig is parked in a grassy campground after a heavy downfall.

If you plan on keeping the truck for several years or put a lot of miles on the truck, a Diesel may be better.

Here's a link to an interesting comparison between gas and diesels:
http://www.advanceautoparts.com/engl...0030101gd.html

One other point...look at the fuel prices in the area that you will be traveling to or through most often. Diesel and Gas prices are not tied together, so some areas may be paying less for gas and some may pay less for Diesel.

Fred

richfaa · 04-02-2005, 07:22 AM

Since we all drive in different parts of the country under different conditions, use our trucks for different things and tow different loads.MPG gas or diesel although interesting information is meaningless to me. The only thing that means anything is what i(you) get the way we use our truck and what we tow. In my humble opinion the Cummings turbo diesel is the best motor out there..I drive one everyday, as well as Ford, International and Chevy (schools bus driver) Having said that We just bought a Ford V-10.. I am somewhat concerned about the new Federal standards due to come out concerning the diesel emmissions and cleaner diesel fuel..They may price the diesel out of reach for the average person..Thought I would wait and see how things turn out.Right now the V10 meets my towing needs. In my driving conditions with less that 500 miles on the truck we are at 13.7 MPg no tow. Fortunatly this is not our everyday ride..95% of the time tow only. I am sure that you will be happy with the Cummins turbo diesel...Note My 37 foot 32,500 GVW Bluebird transit style School bus with the cummins gets 10 -11 MPG mixed driving.

Chester · 04-02-2005, 12:13 PM

Personally I just like the way diesels work. I've had 3 CTDs now and 2 VW TDIs. I'm not sure why but unlike the US where diesel seems to cost more than gas, here in Ontario diesel is typically 5-10 cents per liter cheaper than gas. Every winter there is a 2 month period where diesel is the same or a couple of cents more than gas.

Regarding the high price tag to get into a diesel.....in my mind you pay that for the first diesel you buy. After that the resale advantage of the diesel vs the gas pays for the next diesel.

Good luck in your search...

tollmann · 04-02-2005, 05:01 PM

I run a 7.3 Ford diesel. We get between 10 & 12 mpg when towing our 3670 depending on road. weather, and the weight of my right foot. We have 102,000 miles on our Ford and so far other than scheduled maint NO expenses. 90% of the miles on my truck have been towing. No auto trans problems and no oil consumption to speak of. I am totally sold on the diesel.
This is still a matter of personal preference but I for one will not go back to a gas motor for towing.

Montana Sky · 04-02-2005, 09:11 PM

I have the Duramax diesel and do not see myself ever going back to a gas motor. Empty on the highway I get 19 - 22 depending on speed and wind. In town I run 16-18 no matter what. As far as towing goes, I run a pretty solid 13mpg pulling my 3400RL. This is my second Silverado with the diesel and love every mile in it.

Montana_265 · 04-03-2005, 01:25 AM

We have the 2003 Dodge 3/4T Diesel. We get 14-15 around town, 20-22 highway and 11-14 towing a 28 ft. FW. It has approx. 16,000 miles on it. Prior we had a V10 which got 10 around town, 13 highway, 7-9 towing. We live in W. PA and around town hills are a factor. Love to watch the computer thing change when going up a hill.... When we check computer vs. miles divided by gallons it does better than the computer reading. I must admit, I still get nervous when in a strange area and wonder if we can find a diesel station that can handle the height of the FW. We use the exit authority which helps a lot.

Glenn and Lorraine · 04-03-2005, 01:26 AM

This has to be my easiest response ever to the "Gas vs Diesel" question. As I agree 150% with the following......

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Montana Sky

I have the Duramax diesel and do not see myself ever going back to a gas motor. Empty on the highway I get 19 - 22 depending on speed and wind. In town I run 16-18 no matter what. As far as towing goes, I run a pretty solid 13mpg pulling my 3400RL. This is my second Silverado with the diesel and love every mile in it.

Only one change, this is my first diesel.

richfaa · 04-03-2005, 01:51 AM

syssyph..where in W pa do you live..Born in Pittsburgh and grew up in New Castle, Pa....

mgdg · 04-03-2005, 05:14 AM

I took the truck to Florida in November WITHOUT the Mountaineer 328rls(34ft 11in.long 10,245lbs) and got 24+ mpg(U.S.) 29.6 mpg(Can) I always figure mpg in U.S. gallons (3.78 litres) and Can gallons (4.5 litres) per gallon. With the Mountaineer in March We went to Key West and got 13.4 mpg U.S., approx 16.8 mpg Can.in the Mountains. (Kentucky, Tennessee) 14.0 mpg U.S. 17.3 mpg Can. on the flats(Mich. Ohio Southern Ga. and Fla.) I`ll tell you I would never use a gas engine to tow with again. I tried a Diesel conditioner(Cetane Boost) from Flying J and got approx .5 more mpg. on the way home. The Dodge is still a pup and the engineers at work say the milage will get better as you put more on it.
So my vote goes to the Diesel hands down!!

azstar · 04-03-2005, 05:48 AM

Hi All,

I must say these MPG's towing stated by Montana Sky & mgdg are pretty impressive, 13+. It could change the way I feel about the Diesel. I'm use to using 11 towing as a Diesel MPG factor.

Hated the noise, the initial cost, the cost of maintenance and God help us if it has to be repaired on your own dollar.

Now, they have done some big improvements with the noise factor, the initial cost gap is down to $4000 and with a long warranty maybe 7 yrs. I wouldn't be so concerned about that unexpected high $ repair bill.

This leaves only the maintenance issue. Maybe something I could live with. I do my own Oil changes so I could save some there by buying filters on-line. I would have to buy a bigger drain bucket and that's it.

I'm am still suspicious when I see thoes signs at the Auto Shops that always say "Diesels Extra". Cooling System Flush, "Diesels Extra", Trans Service, "Diesels Extra". Coffee and a Doughnut, "Diesels Extra"

Happy Camping

Montana_1631 · 04-03-2005, 08:14 PM

Well folks I have purchased a 2004 3500dually duramax and I'm happy as the devil with the unit. When we run the highways empty we run about 20-22mpg and I pull a 3685 we get about 12-14 on the flat I live in california and right how the diesel price runs from $2.49-$2.65 a gallon. I carry 84 gallons total as I added a 50 gallon in the bed. The part I like is the fact that I have the pulling power down in the lower rpm range. For the future that we have planned I would not go back to gas. We had 2 motorhome,s with 454's one was a 1988 and it got 4.5 mpg and the other was a 1990 and it got 7 mpg. Right now we figure that we have a really nice rig and we have to look past the price of fuel.

Puzzie Pigpen
Chevy 3500 dually duramax
3685 montana

Northstar · 04-03-2005, 09:23 PM

My vote is for the diesel mainly for it's pulling power.

Montana Sky · 04-03-2005, 09:43 PM

I will say that the cost of oil changes and maintenance does cost more and in my opinion is worth the additional cost hands down. I keep my oil changes at 3,000 miles and follow the dealership chart for the normal upkeep maintenance on the rest. It is cheaper for me to pay for maintenance as I go rather then having to buy a new truck or replace a motor. I want to see 250,000 miles on this truck before I think about trading in for a new one.

richfaa · 04-04-2005, 02:09 AM

My criteria for a diesel was..Will we travel 30,000 miles or more a year, will we keep the truck for 5 years or more, will we pull heavy loads on steep grades on a regular basis.Our answer was no to all three so we went with the V-10. The diesel,in my opinion, is the better motor in the long run and if you meet the above criteria.Our camping and driving habits will change when Wife retires (2 camping seasons from now) and we will no doubt go diesel.Will watch the new federal standards for diesel fuel and diesel emmisions closely..I like the cummins diesel..but not the Dodge truck..Duramax and Chevy is good but the Ford truck had the Tow Command this year...The term Ford and Diesel ,in my humble opinion, do not belong in the same sentence.Hope Ford gets it right with the 07 twin Turbo. These are my opinions amd mean absolutly nothing...

mallardjusted · 04-05-2005, 06:45 PM

Diesels in general get ROUGHLY 30 to 40 % better mileage. The thing I like about that is that I can put 30 to 40% more miles on the road before having to refuel. That means I can usually go 450 to 550 miles when not towing, and 350 miles when towing our 3255 (when considering 33 gallons used out of the 38 ga tank).

sreigle · 04-09-2005, 04:42 AM

Ken, I think the 8.1 gets mpg very similar to Ford's V10. We towed this same Montana with the V10 and now with the diesel. The diesel gets 40% better mileage both towing and solo. I figure if regular gasoline is 2.25 per gallon, diesel would have to be 3.15 per gallon to equate to the same cost per mile for fuel. Said another way, diesel at 2.25 is equal to gasoline at 1.61.

There is the premium for the diesel engine but most magazines agree you get most or all of that back at tradein time so I don't even consider that.

There's certainly nothing wrong with the gas engines but I'll not go back as long as we're towing. The diesel is just too good and I wince a little bit less at fillup time even though these days it's hard not to wince.

Richfaa, my answer to your questions is 'yes' on all three, so the diesel makes sense for us. Also, as far as I and most of the buying world (sales leader for 28 years, you see), Ford and diesel go together very well. I can give you magazine urls if you'd like to see for yourself.

As for the oil changes, it does cost more. I used to change oil at 3000 miles on our V10 gasser but change it at 5000 miles on our diesel. So, cost per 10k miles is close to the same. And both this Ford diesel and our prior Ford diesel never ever was even below the full mark at 5,000 miles nor was any oil ever added between changes. I find that amazing since we are towing almost 14k pounds and grades to 8%.

richfaa · 04-09-2005, 05:19 AM

sreigle..I guess I should have said Ford and the 6.0psd do not belong in the same sentence (in my humble opinion).Although there are many satisfied owners the trouble rate is way to high on the 6.0PSd..and .if it is not broke why fix it...The 6.4 twin turbo that will be out in 07 is not a upgrade of the 6.0 is is a replacement.. Yes you and many others meets Richards Criteria(it's not really mine you know) for the diesel so having one makes sense.When we can say yes to all three we will have one also. Many folks get the diesel without considering all the factors like my camping buddy who got the Dodge diesel because "it sounds cool)

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