More failures

[bethandkevin]

Holy cow Rich, ours was built on Friday the 13th and I expected some possible bad luck. I think you got the bad MoJo though.

[richfaa]

In hope this is a joke!!!

Phil

I don't think so Phil. Read the post just on this thread. our luck is very good except when it comes to our two Montana's. We had very good luck with our previous 4 rv's, cars, trucks, etc. Why we even won some $$ in Vegas. The only logical answer is that our two Montana's were the exception to the rule of otherwise nearly trouble free units. I hope Keystone recognizes this. This forum is the proof.

[8.1al]

If I were you Rich I would be out of that trailer so fast it would make your head spin

[richfaa]

Easier said than done. It would be hard to sell now with water on the ground under the Rv and was the same last season. Other than the so called Minimal and small problems that IMO everyone has but might not say so the holding tanks have been our BIG problem. There has to be a design flaw or improper installation on our Montana only since it is rare with others.

If we were back home in Ohio it would be less of a hassle but here we have nowhere to go. We believe that considering the amount of $$ we paid for these things they should be relatively trouble free. I have learn here that most are but mine is the exception. We will go from there.

[RRman]

Sorry about your bad luck!
To me its Keystone's fault for using crappy ABS tanks, but on the other hand its mostly the tank manufacturers fault their tanks are so crappy unless there's something wrong about the install. I've cracked two tanks along the bottom edges due to overfilling but repaired them using Plasti-mend. I guess their is a reason why re-installing failure prone crappy tanks can lead to more failures.
Most of the many problems I've had are not Keystone's fault directly, aka the failed landing gear gearbox (Venture), failed Fridge (Dometic), failed no name brand Sound System, Convection Oven (Halftime), AC units that age out, Hydraulic tank that leaks (Lippert), faucet leaks (forgot the name of that RV supplier), Slide topper and awning deterioration, BFG Commercial T/A tire tread delaminations, Alarms that age out... What I like about our Montana besides the floorplan is I've been able to repair/replace almost all failures myself and I know what they are in the event of re-failure. There's not much left except for the stove, propane regulator, toilet, and the converter to fail and I think I can handle those too. RV is not really any worse than the house in terms of fixes or maintenance.

[Phil P]

RRman

I am lucky in that I haven’t yet had any problems with the appliances except the landing gear.

Here a surprise for you. I contacted Venture and purchased a second motor and gearbox for the passenger side of the trailer. To my surprise after installation the passenger side landing gear leg extended and retracted slower than the street side leg. When I contacted Venture about this I was told Keystone doesn’t purchase the motor and gear box from them.

You guess it they use a cheap Chinese gear box and motor and the gear ratio isn’t low enough to handle the loads imposed on it.

Our normal operation is with a heavy load in the basement and to remove this from the trailer we raise the trailer so the basement floor is level with the TV bed. This requires almost a full extension of the landing gear. So far so good since install 2 Ventura gear box and motors.

Phil P

[richfaa]

We may have to hook up and go back to Ohio due to the stench of our leaking Galley tank. Fortunately it is only a Minimal problem and the inconvenience is minimal.

[DarMar]

How do your neighbors like the smell??? Hope you don't have to head home early.

[Phil P]

richfaa

Have you opened the belly under that tank to make sure your odder problem isn’t dish water collecting in the belly covering?

Also if you have your drain valve open all the time to keep the tank from leaking you may be getting odder from the park sewer system.

Phil P

[richfaa]

it is both PhiL. Galley water collects in the under belly and stinks. If we leave the valve open we get sewer smell. We opened up the hole we cut in the Galley tank for last seasons leak and the water pours on the ground which stinks. The key word is stink. The black tank leak is apparently at the inlet and if we dump even day we do not get black water in the underbelly or stink. It is fun to live in a Montana that smells like a sewer 24/7. We can not get it repaired here. We can not leave it at a dealer for weeks while here. No mobile service will repair tanks on site.

[mlh]

I really don't know what you could do to a holding tank to cause it to fail. They are made to hold water while you travel. I've took my camper where Rich would never take his at speeds most would never do. He pulls with the same truck I do a 2008 Ford. He is using his camper for exactly what it was designed for.
Lynwood

[Irlpguy]

Rich there is no way I would live with what you are experiencing. Here is what I would do:

If it meant pulling the unit offsite for a day I would have the galley tank dropped and removed, I would have a plumber tie into the galley sink drain that goes into the tank and plumb that directly to the main sewer drain and leave it open all the time. You should get no odor coming up the piping from the tank even with the valve open, your sinks have traps in them and that simply cannot happen if they are full of water. If you have one of those stupid vents built in to that part of your system I would cap that as that is likely where the smell is coming from not up the sink drains.

The vent is pretty easy to get at and easy to cap. Once you no longer have water leaking into the underbelly cover you should have no more smell.

I would contact a mobile repairman and suggest to him this temporary fix and see no reason why the park would not allow you to drop the tank and do the plumbing I suggested. This can all be put back to original when you take it in for repair at a later date. I assure you Keystone would not be doing my repairs, there has to be a reason you are having so many tank problems, get it figured out and fixed right and that is not going to happen at Keystone.

If this were me, I would be doing this work myself but understand not everyone can do that. I just would not put up with the smell and the embarrassment would have forced me to do something long before now.

Good luck whatever you decide.

[richfaa]

Ron D"Rich, 4 tanks failed in 32 months, you don't want to hear this, but I think you are doing something to your rig, where you tow it, what you put in it, this isn't the manufacture of the 5th wheel, nor the tank, find a top notch shop write a check for the repair and have them find out what your doing, you may be better off buying a Florida house and flying between locations, it looks like Montana 5th wheels and you don't mix well.

perhaps you can give some direction on what I am doing to cause these failures and what I need to stop doing I never thought of that aspect. This Montana has been sitting on our Florida lot since Oct 21st and sprung two tank leaks while sitting here. I will admit that we filled them with Liquid. We only use our tanks to hold liquid as they are identified as holding tanks. We are not overweight. As many can attest to on this forum we tow pretty much were they tow as we bump to each other here and there. Same roads, same States. We do not boondock so no bad roads. You are correct we do seem to have trouble with Montana 5th wheels but not the previous four Rv,s we had . Any input you may have will be appreciated.

[richfaa]

IRL guy. I will contact the Mobil service and see if we can do that. However we will have no black and galley tank for our trip back home. I would do that in a heat beat if we were on a permeate site and have seen that done with permeate campers. The Galley tank that is leaking is under warranty by the dealer that replaced it last may. I am off work for four days and will open up the underbelly to see what we can see.

[Irlpguy]

Rich I see no reason you will not have the same use of the black tank and the galley on your way home, if you overnight anywhere you would use it as you are currently, you would have to be hooked up of course.

Here is a picture of the sink drain pipe down into the galley tank, it is in the top right corner behind the built in vacuum housing, this area can be accessed quite easily from the under counter cupboard on the entertainment side. The drains from the two sinks "T" into the drain and since your unit is the same as mine you should have a roof vent between the kitchen slide and entertainment slide, you should be able to see this when you open up this area. There are two "T" fittings in the drain pipe, one allows water from the sinks, then one above that is to the roof vent and also straight up to a short pipe with the "crappy" vent, this is the one I capped as I was also getting odor in the kitchen area and that is where it was coming from.
Since you "should" have the roof vent you sure do not need this POS vent they added for whatever reason.



When your tank is finally fixed and replaced I would insist on having both the entry and exit pipes connected with rubber fittings to allow for movement. Of course this will not help a problem if the tank has issues at seams.
Darn it they are "holding" tanks and should be able to hold the amount of water they are supposed to hold without breaking apart, especially when you are sitting still.

I feel your pain and frustration and hope you are able to at least get a temporary solution and then a permanent one, having one's unit sitting at a dealer for repairs for long periods is not acceptable.

Good luck

[richfaa]

I think OZZ on the forum has the fix for these tanks. I am frustrated that we are on this winter site in Florida and are in essence full timing for the 6 months we are here. We are living in this thing .Every full timer will understand what we are experiencing. Everything we own is in this camper our S&B is 1200 miles north. We would have to rent a motel and move our possessions into it. It took 8 weeks for this thing to have two tanks replaced last summer while we were home and our dealer is less that 150 miles from Goshen, Ind and the vendors. However we had our S&B to live in. we are working several options including working with Keystone. I am convinced it is a design defect with the tanks as others are having this same issue. I can not do the work myself and this will be a expensive project. IMO keystone will correct the issue but they must also correct the design flaw or it will happen again.

I have always been a Montana supporter but this Montana is the worst purchase we have ever made on any product. I mean 4 burst tanks all of them while standing still. Thanks for the pics I will look at this tomorrow.

[richfaa]

Opened up the underbelly and can not see or feel a crack or split in the galley or black tank as far as we can see that is. Suspect the problem is at the inlet to both tanks. A lot of water spilled out of the under belly when we opened it up.

[richfaa]

We know were the water is coming from somewhere from half way up on both tanks. We know what level the tanks have to be to start leaking. between our two Montana's the 06 and now this 13 Big sky we have had 10 leaking tanks over 9 years. Six in the 06 two gray, two galley, two black. Four in this 13 Big sky two galley one black, one gray. We do not Travel with tanks full all the tanks have been defective or came apart at the inlet. After 9 years we are pretty good at Diagnosing Montana problems.

we did have further conversation with Keystone today. They are trying to work something out.

[Tom S.]

Rich, I remember you saying that on your old unit, you had straps added to hold the weight of the tanks. Did you have that done to these tanks when they were replaced?

[richfaa]

No the dealer will only repair or replace to OEM specs as well as the Extended warranty Company. If you want more you pay and there is no warranty. BTW the tanks that were strapped on the 06 also leaked in time. It had two leaking tanks when we traded it in.