Anyone Towing a 3750FL With a GMC?

[Hooker]

quote:Originally posted by HOOK

Bingo is towing a 3750 with a chev 1 ton dually. I will only suggest that you consider the safety of the wider stance and stability of a dually. IMHO and not trying to rehash this again , the dually is safer in an emergency situation. It's not about towing the unit, it's about controlling it in an emergency.

Also, the 3/4 ton cannot carry the pin weight and stay within specs.

[Irlpguy]

Tom S. wrote:

quote:
While the GVWR sticker on the door won't change, the physical/actual GVWR will. The only difference between a 3/4 ton GM truck and a SRW 1 ton truck are: 1) springs, 2) Tires, 3) Wheels. Nothing else, well, except as I said the sticker.

I am sorry I disagree with this statement. The front springs/axles are equally involved in the determination of the GVWR of a truck, On HD 1 ton trucks the axle housing is larger with larger components adding to the capacity as well. The suggestion was to change the springs only, nothing else. No matter what you do unless you re-certify the truck, the GVWR will legally remain as indicated on the door. The capacity of a truck, trailer or whatever is relevant to it's weakest link.

I don't care what people pull with, that is their individual choice, but to suggest you can make a 1 ton out of a 3/4 ton by changing the rear springs alone is really stretching it.

Here is a question you attendees can ask the big wigs at Keystone when you all gather to talk about all things Montana.
Ask them why they take a Dexter 7000 lb axle equipped with 3500 lb springs and place a sticker on the Montana with a GAWR of 6750 lbs. Let me tell you why they do it. Because the crap tires they put on their units reduce the carry capacity of a 7000 lb axle to the lowest common denominator (the tires). The tires ratings must be equal or over the capacity of the axles, and obviously any tire rated at 3420 lbs does not equal or exceed the 7000 lb axle rating, but it does exceed the 6750 lbs. They are protecting their asses by stating the GAWR is less that what the manufacturer claims and the other axle components support.

Every wonder why they don't put LT tires on these heavier units, well again they would be breaking the law to reduce the capacity of an axle by putting a tire on it capable of carrying far less than the capacity of the axles. It is illegal in Canada and I suspect in the US to put a tire on an axle that reduces the capacity of the axle.
Do some checking, I think you will be amazed at what you find.

[Art-n-Marge]

Depending on the truck, mine was a 2006 F-250 with 4x4, 6.0PSD, Torqueshift trans, 3.73 rear end, what was needed for me was the leaf spring pack (basically an overload spring and the bumper hardware for contact points), then larger 18" wheels, and tires to support the new weight rating (17" tires did not have the proper rating so I swapped them out). All other components matched the F-350.

I was able to verify this through two dealers, three sets of trucks, access to Ford parts lists for confirmation, the DMV, the CHP and a certification company in my state and others who had done this.

One MUST check to ensure this is all that's needed because sometimes it isn't that easy, but I was able to officially upgrade my F-250 SRW to an F-350 SRW. Other model year trucks, different specs may differ but it can be done. While my truck is official I am not 100% legal until I recertify my truck (they validate the work done, ensure things were properly installed, then provide you a new VIN sticker with the new numbers for the door pillar, then pay the new higher vehicle registration and voila). I can still use my truck legally but only for private use at the new weight ratings, but until the recert, I cannot commercially tow. I did tow for a living but had to use the F-250 numbers and even though my truck was equipped for F-350 numbers, I could NOT tow as such and get paid. This is fine with me because I just wanted to ensure my truck could now tow my rig AND be compliant. But I cannot tow your rig and charge you if it surpasses the F-250 ratings, but I could tow your rig legally on a non-commercial agreement.

Believe it or not Irlp, it's legal for me at least in California, which is then grandfathered in other states (except Goodyear, AZ when only their laws count... LOL). I worked with the State DMV and the CHP and Ford and researched this correctly (It took several months). You just have to have the right combination of truck. Your state or truck may vary which is probably where you are coming from. I learned a lot too.

As for LT tires on trailers there are plenty of places who won't work on or swap LT tires onto a trailer. Most get around this by looking around for a tire shop that doesn't have this restriction. Maybe LonnieB (MOC resident tire shop manager and expert from New Mexico) can chime in about this.

[HOOK]

Just suppose you had catastrophic accident and an innocent 2nd party was killed, God forbid. Then the right lawyer took the case. His first question just might be, "Sir, did you know that according to the weight capacities of your truck, you are illegal and unsafe?" and from there it goes downhill.

[Krease]

To add to what HOOK said, I have the 3750FL with approximately 3200lbs of pin weight in the bed. It overloads my Ram dually, but does sit perfectly level. 2500? No way.

[Tom S.]

quote:Originally posted by Irlpguy

Tom S. wrote:

I am sorry I disagree with this statement. The front springs/axles are equally involved in the determination of the GVWR of a truck, On HD 1 ton trucks the axle housing is larger with larger components adding to the capacity as well. The suggestion was to change the springs only, nothing else. No matter what you do unless you re-certify the truck, the GVWR will legally remain as indicated on the door. The capacity of a truck, trailer or whatever is relevant to it's weakest link.

You are missing my point - THEY ARE THE SAME. The ONLY difference in a 2500 and a 3500 SRW are the rear springs, tires and wheels. The front suspension is the same. The shocks are the same. The bearings are the same. The axle housing on them is the same. The only time things change is when you go to the dual rear wheels.

You may disagree with me all you want, but I worked for the General for 38.5 years. You can prove it to yourself by going to a Chevy or GMC dealer and talking to the parts guy. Remember, we are talking about the 3500 Single Rear Wheel model and not the dually. The parts people will verify that all the parts, other than the rear springs, wheels and tires are the same.

[Irlpguy]

Tom S. your original suggestion was to change the rear springs only, with the caveat on the tires and rims. I did not miss your point at all because pulling a much heavier RV with a 1 ton SRW would more than likely still put you in the position of being overweight and most definitely would on the 2500 from a legal standpoint.

Art, I don't think the OP was going to be going into the commercial hauling of trailers, his concern was the ability to tow a heavier RV model with his current 2500. There is nothing to say he is currently not overweight on the truck since a 3400RL is right up there in weight as well. Unless you actually re-certified your truck after the modifications how are you "legal" anywhere, let alone in Goodyear,AZ.

As has been mentioned here by several others, one must take into consideration the "legal" aspects of hauling with a truck not rated for the weight, and important as well the ability of the truck to best handle emergency maneuvers and situations.

I am not judging anyone on their choice of tow vehicles, personally I would not tow any of the larger Montana's with anything less than a 1 ton dually. One must be careful what you carry and how it is loaded to comply with the ratings on even these trucks, how are you going to do that with a 3/4 ton.

I would like to think if we are going to advise someone on their concerns of being overweight with a heavier RV that we should give them the best possible advise, so as not to put them in a less than desirable position with respect to safety and possible legality.

[captbanjo]

This is a good point tripguy. I very well may be over the legal limits as I have struggled for eight years to understand this jargon and terminology of the logistics of towing between a truck and RV.

That being said, I've towed thousands of miles with my 3400 and never had any issues of note. The RV and truck seem to work very well together and I have never had a problem slowing down or stopping.

The reason I originally posted this was the pin weight seemed to be quite a bit different from the original pin weight given for my 3400RL, 2005 model. My concern was that the newer 3750FL would cause problems in the pin weight department.

[Captain Joe]

Art,
Totally agree. I am overkill, but I am legal. My 1-ton dually truck was a 2004 and did not have the ability to handle these heavier RVs. Then, we traded in our 3750FL and purchased the 3725RL and because of our big truck, we did not second guess our purchase. The 3725RL has a pin weight that is 545 pounds heavier than the 3750FL. Running those numbers with that weight was impossible for a 2004 to handle. I hope the new trucks can handle it. Oh, buy the way, one can buy two trucks like mine for the price of a new one ton.

[Irlpguy]

captbanjo wrote:

quote:
The reason I originally posted this was the pin weight seemed to be quite a bit different from the original pin weight given for my 3400RL, 2005 model. My concern was that the newer 3750FL would cause problems in the pin weight department.

It is relatively simple to determine the capacity of your current truck according to it's manufacturers specifications captbanjo.

First load your truck with the items you would normally carry when hauling your trailer, fill it with fuel, take your wife for a nice little drive down to the weigh scale and weigh it. Preferably weigh the front and rear axles separately. The combined weight is the GVW (Gross Vehicle Weight) of your truck. Now subtract that figure from the GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) that is listed on the drivers side door jam of your truck. The difference is what you can "legally" carry as pin weight. If that amount is less than the pin weight of the old/new trailer then you are exceeding the "legal" and perhaps safe capacity of the truck.

Parts of the formula we cannot know until we have the trailer fully loaded with our goodies and scale it as well.

At this time I would worry about only this part of the overall weight determination formula and just satisfy yourself on the one thing that concerned you in the first place. Settle on that for now.

[Tom S.]

quote:Originally posted by Irlpguy

captbanjo wrote:

It is relatively simple to determine the capacity of your current truck according to it's manufacturers specifications captbanjo.

First load your truck with the items you would normally carry when hauling your trailer, fill it with fuel, take your wife for a nice little drive down to the weigh scale and weigh it. Preferably weigh the front and rear axles separately. The combined weight is the GVW (Gross Vehicle Weight) of your truck. Now subtract that figure from the GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) that is listed on the drivers side door jam of your truck. The difference is what you can "legally" carry as pin weight. If that amount is less than the pin weight of the old/new trailer then you are exceeding the "legal" and perhaps safe capacity of the truck.

Parts of the formula we cannot know until we have the trailer fully loaded with our goodies and scale it as well.

At this time I would worry about only this part of the overall weight determination formula and just satisfy yourself on the one thing that concerned you in the first place. Settle on that for now.

Then follow that up by telling your wife she needs to lose weight because she puts the truck over the pin weight limit.

[mail2us]

Tom, you had me at 38.5 yrs at General but lost me suggesting our DW's might lose wt. After 48 yrs I'd be riding alone

[Tom S.]

Then you're lucky - at least you'd still be riding.

[Art-n-Marge]

Tom S., that comment took guts about DW losing weight but the joke had me rolling on the floor. There are many other things that one can do besides "discuss weight loss with DW unless it's your weight". Travel with Lite Beer, use dehydrated water in the fresh water tank, don't buy the beer until you get to the destination, or don't fill the fresh water tank until you get there. Just some ideas. I'm sure others have their suggestions.

The times I weighed my truck were when it was fully loaded in towing configuration and so was the trailer. We don't shop for food until we get there and carry about 10 gallons in the fresh water tank, just in case, for a bio stop. I'll be traveling empty on the fresh water since our stops these days are at truck stops, rest stops or places with good restrooms. After over seven years with our Monty, we've never used the rig for a bio stop therefore don't need to carry all that water any more. And we've always been able to fill at our destination if we use the fresh water tank and unload the weight at our site or at a dump station.

[psomers]

This thread got me looking back at tow specs I got when I bought my 2500. A 2500 actually has higher tow rating than the 3500 SRW. I'm not saying pin weight as the 3500 is higher. A 2500HD Extended cab 2WD is rated 15,300#. A 3500 SRW Extended cab 2WD is rated 15,100#. The regular cab is a few hundred pounds more than that.
The GCW for 2500 & 3500 are the same. They subtract vehicle weight from GCW and what's left is tow weight. So the 3500 weighs more so less tow weight.

[Irlpguy]

I do not think when stopped by the true Weight Police they will be looking at any literature published by the big three regarding the towing capacity of your truck, the police and lawyers would look at the stickers on your vehicles, maximum capacities are what is clearly specified on each and every vehicle, being ignorant of your truck/trailer capacities will not prevent you from getting a ticket or worse. The best thing is to stay within those limits.

[psomers]

quote:Originally posted by Irlpguy

I do not think when stopped by the true Weight Police they will be looking at any literature published by the big three regarding the towing capacity of your truck, the police and lawyers would look at the stickers on your vehicles, maximum capacities are what is clearly specified on each and every vehicle, being ignorant of your truck/trailer capacities will not prevent you from getting a ticket or worse. The best thing is to stay within those limits.

To be honest I don't know off the top of my head what the sticker says. I was just posting what the 2009 GM supplied tow manual states. I wasn't trying to justify my selection of TV or 5th wheel. Don't really think of myself as being ignorant.

[captbanjo]

As the OP, just want to thank everyone who has chimed in here and I hope no negativity grows from this.

I'm happy to read all opinions and think on them.

[Irlpguy]

psomers wrote:

quote:
To be honest I don't know off the top of my head what the sticker says. I was just posting what the 2009 GM supplied tow manual states. I wasn't trying to justify my selection of TV or 5th wheel. Don't really think of myself as being ignorant.

Paul the information you posted was an interesting comparison of the two trucks and was not mistaken by me as being an endorsement one way or the other, nor was I suggesting you were in any way ignorant. My point was that what matters to the police and lawyers is not that literature, since they will only look at the information posted on your vehicle. Likewise in the event someone is stopped, being ignorant (unaware) of those limits would not likely prevent getting a ticket.

I am a layman, not a literary person, obviously there are times when what I write is misinterpreted. At 71 it may be a bit late for me to get into school again, so I am just doing the best I can.

Wayne the consensus seems to be you will have to think about replacing your current truck if you are looking at a larger unit, I agree with that thinking 100%.

[psomers]

Hey Irlpguy that is one layperson to another. My pin weight is listed as 2055 before my DW has put her ton in so I'm sure I'm over some.
Understand completely about age as I will be 74 this October 28th. Still walking 18 holes twice a week so God is good.