LP problem - Montana Owners Club

Jim Jarvis · 11-26-2007, 12:25 AM

Just thought I would try this with the group. It's an old problem, long and short of it is under certain circumstances I cannot run the furnace and the generator together unless my propane tanks are pretty much full. Soon as a tank gets below half the problem begins. I have been fighting this problem even in the summer. I can run anything in the trailer no problem until the generator is turned on. My dealer has called Keystone and this is the answer he got.

"They are saying that with the regular trailer propane appliances being used is fine, but when the gen. is turned on this maxes out the supply of propane to the system from the propane tanks. This supply depends on the air temperature & how much propane is in the tanks. On a warmer day you can operate on less propane in your tanks than on a colder day. Liquid propane uses the heat from the air to boil & make gas. Their suggestion was add a larger external propane tank using the extend-a-stay kit. I don`t think this is possible as what do you do with it when you travel. He though it was parked. He had no other suggestions other than load sharing the system. I talked to 2 different people & both had the same thoughts."

Now to me this is unacceptable. That I would have to decide whether I can charge the batteries or be warm. One or the other, but not both. I do intend to call Keystone myself but I do not expect a different answer. I have not seen this before on MOC and I was wondering if anyone in the group has seen this problem and was there a better solution?

Glenn and Lorraine · 11-26-2007, 12:41 AM

The answer sounds legit to me. I feel when you do contact Keystone you will be told that this is the way the LP industry has designed these systems, possibly for safety issues, and there is not much they can do about it but it don't hurt to ask the question.

H. John Kohl · 11-26-2007, 01:18 AM

Since this will probably be their answer the only other option I could see is being able to isolate each tank so one goes to the generator and the other goes to the heater. Of course there are obvious disadvantages of not having the second tank as back up. I suggest talking to propane experts about the volume used by both and the ability to put in isolation switching.
Good luck and let us know what you find out.
Cheers,

Jim Jarvis · 11-26-2007, 02:46 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by H. John Kohl

Since this will probably be their answer the only other option I could see is being able to isolate each tank so one goes to the generator and the other goes to the heater. Of course there are obvious disadvantages of not having the second tank as back up. I suggest talking to propane experts about the volume used by both and the ability to put in isolation switching.
Good luck and let us know what you find out.
Cheers,

Thanks John. That is an option the dealer has presented, to isolate each tank. I may do that but that limits your choice. May be something to try though. Biggest problem is in the Fall. Another option is a suitable solar system making the genset an expensive backup to the solar system. We do mostly dry camping. I've said it before and I'll say it again, if I had it to do over again I'd spend the big bucks on solar and batteries and buy a small Honda genset.

Exnavydiver · 11-26-2007, 04:26 AM

Jim, I just got back from filling one of my tanks and asked about your problem, the response was that this an ongoing problem with the new safety valves. The new valves are set to shut down if a hose breaks or if someone opens the valve to dump propane. When you are running the genset you are close to that limit, and if the furnace is on you are probably exceeding that limit. The gas guy's suggestion was that you use a dedicated bottle for the genset and not run it off the rig supply unless everything else is off. The furnace and water heater are the heaviest users of gas on the rig. Things should work with the fridge and maybe one stove burner. This forum is the reason I declined the generator prep and install. When I do get a genset I will get a gasoline unit (small). I will eventually get a decent solar setup too.. Dave and Betsy

H. John Kohl · 11-26-2007, 05:49 AM

One other option is to use electrical heaters when you are running your generator and then back to furnace when the generator is turned off.
I am thinking of a three tank system.
Tank A to Generator with an auto cut-over valve. Tank B to Trailer with an auto cut-over valve. Tank C (once you find a place for it) comes off the tank and is T'd to both A and B auto cut-over valves.
1. you would not want to have both tank A and B low at the same time. This would put you back in the original position.
2. I would put those monitor devices on both auto cut-over valves so you know when either one switches to Tank C.
3. As now it would require you to monitor the tanks closely but should work.
4. It would probably be smart to put a low pressure regulator on tank C before the T connection as done with the drivers side tank.
Best of luck and tell us what you come up with.
Cheers,

racerjoe · 11-26-2007, 12:30 PM

I think that moc addict has it right about adding a third tank. Why can't you add a 20 pound tank and mount it inside your front compartment. It would be close to your 30 pound tanks and venting should not be a problem. I think there is enough height to mount and vent it correctly and it would not use up that much room

AZCampinfool · 11-26-2007, 03:57 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by racerjoe

I think that moc addict has it right about adding a third tank. Why can't you add a 20 pound tank and mount it inside your front compartment. It would be close to your 30 pound tanks and venting should not be a problem. I think there is enough height to mount and vent it correctly and it would not use up that much room

Hmmmm...I doubt there is room for the tank in the front. He already has a built in generator up there, plus probably batteries. I can't see fitting much more up there.

bigmurf · 11-26-2007, 05:02 PM

Convert the genset to gasoline?

Jim Jarvis · 11-26-2007, 09:56 PM

No room up front. There is the genset on one side and 4 golf cart batteries on the other side. I like John's idea of electric heaters, don't know why I didn't think of that. Right now I'm thinking that is the best short term solution. I will start adding solar panels too. I really appreciate everyones helpful suggestions. I know everyone says it but MOC really is a great place. I have a great dealer too who reads our posts because he knows a lot of problems can be solved by doing so. Thanks to all.

jackel1959 · 11-29-2007, 06:12 AM

Jim,
I know there have been a lot of opinions here as to why everything is shutting down when you run the gen and the heater at the same time so let me offer mine. On a previous trailer we had problems running more that one gas appliance at a time (although we didn't have a generator). After a trip to the dealer they found a kinked propane line which was not providing enough fuel when more than one appliance was in use. After they fixed that, we never had a problem again. Just a thought. Good luck.
Jack

OBTW, it was the single flexible rubber line that comes off the regulator and connects tot the hard line for distribution throughout the rest of the rig that was kinked.

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Jim Jarvis

No room up front. There is the genset on one side and 4 golf cart batteries on the other side. I like John's idea of electric heaters, don't know why I didn't think of that. Right now I'm thinking that is the best short term solution. I will start adding solar panels too. I really appreciate everyones helpful suggestions. I know everyone says it but MOC really is a great place. I have a great dealer too who reads our posts because he knows a lot of problems can be solved by doing so. Thanks to all.

Waynem · 11-29-2007, 06:06 PM

If you go with an electric heater, you may want to try the self contained oil heater. Very efficient.

However, without the gas furnace, wouldn't the underbelly be susceptible to freezing should the temperature drop? A third tank may be the way.

Semper Fi!

Jim Jarvis · 11-29-2007, 09:51 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Waynem

If you go with an electric heater, you may want to try the self contained oil heater. Very efficient.

However, without the gas furnace, wouldn't the underbelly be susceptible to freezing should the temperature drop? A third tank may be the way.

Semper Fi!

Actually I'm not talking about really really cold camping. Freezing wouldn't be a concern. However, if it was I'd just have to rely on the electric for 3 hours or so to get the batteries back up and then could run the furnace. If I was going to be in freezing type weather for long I'd have to have another look at the third tank or dedicated tanks.

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