Another Shackle Problem

[DHenry]

Thank you to all of you that posted about the shackle problems. Because of this I crawled under my Montana and found that I was about to have a serious problem also. I installed the Dexter EZ Flex and wet bolt shackles today. I will post some pictures of what to look for and the bad shackles that I found to be on my Montana after only 10,000 to 12,000 miles.






Sorry I spelled Passenger wrong.

[CRUZIN 2]

DHenry

Thanks for the great post & pic's it looks like the low side of the road wears more (passenger side). It looks like we all need to keep an eye on this problem.

[HamRad]

Doug,

Great pictures. They really show the need for vigilance on this issue. But according to Mor Ryde or whoever did the 45K mile study you have many more miles than what you stated.

Dennis

[rlwhit]

Doug, When are your problems going to stop? Yake care.

Dick

[DHenry]

Dick, I feel like I retired so I would have time to do my repairs on the Montana :-).

Dennis, I am wondering how many side trips this Montana took during the delivery trip here to put on all those extra miles. I wonder if that was a typo and they really meant 4500 miles.

[8.1al]

Hey Doug, those shackles look just like mine. How did the install of the new shackles go and how long did it take?

[DHenry]

Charlie, they do resemble yours don't they? Thanks to you and your instructions the install went very well. I started on the drivers side and it took me 3 1/2 hours, then I re-read your list of tools needed and noticed that you wrote that I would need a big hammer. I was using a pretty good sized ball peen hammer but was really laboring to get the plastic sleeves out, so I got my 2 1/2 pound sledge hammer out for the passenger side and things went a lot faster. It only took me 1 1/2 hours to do the passenger side. It took almost that long to pick up and put away all the tools, jacks and lumber that I had out to do the job. Thanks again for all the tips on replacing the shackles.

[stiles watson]

The more you guys post about shackles, the more my earlier comments are validated. I am very glad you checked and thwarted a possible disaster. I am also happy for anyone who checks and finds no problems. The whole point is to keep everyone safe by avoiding problems in the middle of your travels.

[noneck]

Yes...and the VALUE of this forum is driven by those of us that post and the hard work our admin folks impart. Quite the extended family we are...!

[The Oldguard]

quote:Originally posted by DHenry

Thank you to all of you that posted about the shackle problems. Because of this I crawled under my Montana and found that I was about to have a serious problem also. I installed the Dexter EZ Flex and wet bolt shackles today. I will post some pictures of what to look for and the bad shackles that I found to be on my Montana after only 10,000 to 12,000 miles.






Sorry I spelled Passenger wrong.

Doug, Here is a web site that I ran across on a different forum when doing a Google search on how to do the shackle repair. Is it anything like you did on your repair???

http://www.afnash.com/index.php?cate...7_sectionid=17

Doug which shackle kit (Model Number) did you get for your Montana, and what is the old number that came off???

[richfaa]

remember this posted Sept 25th.... Don't see how anyone could be having problems..I must be having hallucinations.


Dear MOC Members,

I received this from Aram Koltookian at Keystone. Those of you concerned about the your shackles may find this of interest.

All my best,
Lady RV


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MOR/ryde International, Inc.


1966 Moyer Avenue P.O. Box Elkhart, Indiana 46515 (574) 293-1581 Fax (574) 294-4936 www.morryde.com


Date: September 18, 2007

To: Keystone Montana Owners Club

From: MOR/ryde International

Re: Use of Wet Bolt Kit vs. Standard Non Wet Bolt (Attaching Parts Kit)


Following the MOR/ryde seminar at the Montana Owners Club Rally in Goshen there has been much discussion and debate about the use of wet shackle bolts w/ grease zerks and bronze bushings verses the industry standard non wet bolt w/ nylon or plastic bushings. We are concerned the information shared may have been presented in a way that led to a misunderstanding of MOR/ryde's position on the use of standard bolt vs wet bolt packages.

While upgrading to a heavy duty attaching parts kit (Wet Bolt Kit) can provide added protection against wear, the use of this kit is in no way a requirement to ensure safe and reliable towing.
Keystone goes to great lengths to ensure that the products that they offer meet and/or exceed the consumer's expectation for value and safety. Keystone Montana as the leading manufacturer of fifth wheels in the industry is second to none with respect to product testing. Our experience is that Keystone tests more that any other 5th wheel manufacturer. Earlier this year a Keystone Montana was again subjected to a durability test at the Bosch Automotive Proving Grounds that simulated approximately 45,000 road miles. That unit was equipped with the MOR/ryde Suspension System and standard non wet attaching parts. The standard attaching parts remained intact for the entire test and upon inspection at the conclusion of the test showed standard wear to the shackle links and attaching brackets on the MOR/ryde system. MOR/ryde would interpret this test result in a positive light and the results would be as anticipated. MOR/ryde has also conducted several durability tests of our suspension system with the standard bolt package and the test results have been positive.

The non wet shackle bolt w/ nylon or plastic bushing used by Keystone Montana is the standard suspension used by most manufacturers in the industry including those who also use a MOR/ryde suspension system. As with most OEM components (Recreational Vehicle, Automotive, Transit, etc.) companies often develop aftermarket upgrades in an attempt to increase aftermarket sales revenue. The upgraded components do offer value. Wet bolt kits are just that, an aftermarket upgrade that offer a means of lubricating the bronze bushings located in the spring eye and equalizer through the use of grease zerks on the bolts. There are pros and cons to this set-up. They will extend the life of attaching parts (shackles/brackets) but must be installed properly for the bolt and bushing to take on grease. They do incur added cost, which in many instances, may not be necessary as standard shackles can last thousands of miles as evidenced during Montana's durability testing.

The key with any attaching parts kit is to periodically inspect for signs of excessive wear, cracking, or hole elongation. The recommended interval for inspection as indicated in the axle owner's manual is every 6 months or 6,000 miles for attaching parts and 12 months or 12,000 miles for leaf springs and spring hangers. Suspension attaching parts are wearable components that can and do wear at different intervals depending upon factors including weight, loading, and road conditions. While upgrading to a wet bolt kit will extend the life of attaching parts, it is impossible to accurately say by how much. It is also important to understand that an upgrade to the wet bolt kit is not necessary to ensure safe and reliable towing. MOR/ryde has sold tens of thousands of our suspension system equipped with standard non wet bolt kits and are very pleased with the results. MOR/ryde does not view the use of wet bolt kits as necessary or mandatory and has shared this position with Keystone and other OEM's.

MOR/ryde apologizes to Keystone and to the Montana Owners Club if any of the information presented at the seminar led Montana owners to believe that an upgrade to a wet bolt kit is necessary. MOR/ryde's position on this upgrade is that it is simply something to keep in mind should the need ever arise. Please feel free to contact us directly if you have any questions or need additional information.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lady RV

[Bill and Ann]

I hope I can get another 700 miles out of mine until I can get to Fox's RV in Middlebury. They will be gone and so will the Tacomas.

[DHenry]

Bill, I ordered the K71-653-00 E-Z Flex Suspension Complete Kit from www.dexteraxle.com

The web site that you found to replace the shackles is a good one but the instructions I got from Charlie (8.1) make it easier in my opinion.

Charlie emailed me the following instructions. My comments are in ()

You will need;
2 Jack stands
2 bottle jacks-at least on 8 ton or better (I left the bottle jacks under the frame and used 2 floor jacks under the axles)
1/2 drive sockets (I used a impact wrench to remove bolts and nuts, then used the sockets and torque wrench to install new bolts and nuts)
wrenches
needle nose pliers (I did not use needle nose pliers, instead I used a bushing driver)
torque wrench
big hammer (I suggest a 2 1/2# sledge)
never seize-may not need this with standard equalizer
sand paper heavy duty 6" c clamp (I also used WD40)
grease gun

we jacked up one side on the frame just behind the wheels and then set down on jack stand just behind the jack

placed jacks under axles and raised just enough to take load off bolts and shackles

removed all the nuts and removed shackles from equalizer and springs

removed equalizer and installed new one

removed nylon bushings from spring ends-grab hold with needle nose and twist then pull out (I drove them out with a bushing driver and the 2 1/2# sledge hammer)

clean spring eye with sand paper (I also sprayed WD40 in before driving the brass bushing in)

install new brass bushing-use the c clamp to press into spring (I put an old bolt into the brass bushing and lubed the outside of the bushing and drove it into the spring eye. Then I used my impact wrench to reverse the bolt out of the bushing)

install new shackles-may have to raise or lower a spring to line up

drove bolt from one spring hanger and lower-install new bushing make sure new bolt has tight fit in hanger, the serrations under the bolt head must fit tight into the hole to keep it from turning in use, if it's sloppy the bolt will turn and wear out hanger-raise back into place,-install new bolt-drive into place with a socket or piece of pipe to avoid damaging grease zerk-make sure grease hole in side of bolt is pointing to side, not top or bottom

do other end, may have to raise or lower other spring to get hole to line up with hanger

When tightening nuts make sure you keep bolt from turning with a wrench on the other end.

[8.1al]

If you get hold of one side of the nylon bushing with the needlenose, twist and pull,the bushing comes out quick and easy

[stiles watson]

I agree with Charlie. I have done it both ways and twisting the bushings out with needle-nosed pliers is easier than driving them out by far.

[The Oldguard]

Thank Guys.

[Leaseit]

DHenry......... Great Pictures to document the replacement and good training info if someone else is going to tackle that project.

I noticed in one of the pictures from the Owners Association, the axles on what ever kinds of unit was in the picture, had shocks. Just wondered, if SOB puts shocks on there units, wouldn't it make sense to install shocks on a Montana. Even install after the fact to lessen the initial axle shock and and tire inpact.

[bob]

Charlie what kind of inpact wrench did you use Ha Ha

[8.1al]

Bob,
Some kind gentleman at the rally was trusting enough to loan us his Snapon cordless impact wrench.

Leaseit,
If you have the Morryde RE suspension you don't need shocks

[The Oldguard]

quote:Originally posted by DHenry

Bill, I ordered the K71-653-00 E-Z Flex Suspension Complete Kit from www.dexteraxle.com

The web site that you found to replace the shackles is a good one but the instructions I got from Charlie (8.1) make it easier in my opinion.

Charlie emailed me the following instructions. My comments are in ()

You will need;
2 Jack stands
2 bottle jacks-at least on 8 ton or better (I left the bottle jacks under the frame and used 2 floor jacks under the axles)
1/2 drive sockets (I used a impact wrench to remove bolts and nuts, then used the sockets and torque wrench to install new bolts and nuts)
wrenches
needle nose pliers (I did not use needle nose pliers, instead I used a bushing driver)
torque wrench
big hammer (I suggest a 2 1/2# sledge)
never seize-may not need this with standard equalizer
sand paper heavy duty 6" c clamp (I also used WD40)
grease gun

we jacked up one side on the frame just behind the wheels and then set down on jack stand just behind the jack

placed jacks under axles and raised just enough to take load off bolts and shackles

removed all the nuts and removed shackles from equalizer and springs

removed equalizer and installed new one

removed nylon bushings from spring ends-grab hold with needle nose and twist then pull out (I drove them out with a bushing driver and the 2 1/2# sledge hammer)

clean spring eye with sand paper (I also sprayed WD40 in before driving the brass bushing in)

install new brass bushing-use the c clamp to press into spring (I put an old bolt into the brass bushing and lubed the outside of the bushing and drove it into the spring eye. Then I used my impact wrench to reverse the bolt out of the bushing)

install new shackles-may have to raise or lower a spring to line up

drove bolt from one spring hanger and lower-install new bushing make sure new bolt has tight fit in hanger, the serrations under the bolt head must fit tight into the hole to keep it from turning in use, if it's sloppy the bolt will turn and wear out hanger-raise back into place,-install new bolt-drive into place with a socket or piece of pipe to avoid damaging grease zerk-make sure grease hole in side of bolt is pointing to side, not top or bottom

do other end, may have to raise or lower other spring to get hole to line up with hanger

When tightening nuts make sure you keep bolt from turning with a wrench on the other end.

Doug, just finished with mine today with the same kit, not as bad as yours but close to it sure glad to have it over with, now it time for a couple of cold ones