You have got to see this

[bncinwv]

I was doing some research for Captain Joe regarding the manner in which our satellite installation was wired into the rig. I figured it would be beneficial to take a couple of pictures of the wiring run so I took the basement panels off which had the wiring runs behind them. Warning, this is not a view for the faint of heart or for those who may have anxiety attacks as a result of gaining some knowledge of what actually goes on in those regions of the rig which are hidden from view. The first picture shows the view directly behind the convenience center. This is beneath the desk and contains the water pump as well as the wiring to and from the breaker and fuse panel. And to think I was considering putting the Autoformer here originally:



The next view is looking down the basement from the convenience center and shows the primary wiring run that includes the controls in the entryway coat closet (slides, pumps, lights, water heater, etc.) as well as the wiring coming out of the desk area from the breaker/fuse panel. It is amazing the amount of wiring that is hidden out of view that controls those things we take for granted!!



If anyone has any questions, please feel free to contact Keystone-Montana Customer Service (Kidding!!!)

Bingo

[CORattler]

It's not just Keystone, though you might expect better wiring management in something you pay that much money for
Looks like they skipped the part in RV building school - Wiring Harness 101. I've actually been slowly cleaning up and inspecting the wiring in mine and checking for wire/water line chafing. When I installed my EMS I used zip ties and did the job right. Thanks for the scary pictures on Halloween!

[Captain Joe]

Wow....saved those photos for future use. And to think that the water pump is located adjacent to the fuse panel.

[pbahlin]

Please don't take this as a knock on Keystone because I think this kind of thing is truly an industry problem. When I took the factory tour I couldn't help but think that for a 'mature' industry I was looking at amateur hour in terms of modern manufacturing practices.

The RV industry has been around for a long, long time. Go to the museum when you get to Elkhart. For some reason this is an industry that has never consolidated. There are hundreds of brands out there. Keystone has dozens all by themselves. And, if you back off of your 'favorites' for a bit you have to admit that there is just not much difference between them all. It seems to me that each brand is operating fairly independently when it comes to mfg. and each is more like an operation that remains more like a garage/home shop than a modern operation.

Here's an example. I've learned from folks in the automobile industry that wire lengths are computed and harnessed to accuracies less than an inch. Look at the wasted loops of wire in the photos. The loops add weight, power loss, and opportunities for abrasion that are inconsistent with the goals I would think are part of designing and building an RV.

My suspicion is that the industry might be uniquely an American one so far. It's never been run through the intensity of foreign competition eating their market share. None of the manufacturers have enough volume (by themselves) to go on a hunt for ways to save pennies on wire like car manufacturers do.

It's an industry ripe to be consumed by some aggressive competitor.

[Bill-N-Donna]

I would not have expected to have seen that. At least you know the space isn’t totally wasted.

[exav8tr]

MY EYES, MY EYES, MY EYES!!!!!!!!!!! A great scene from an episode of Friends........

[Trailer Trash 2]

Thats why they wont give you a blue print or skezmatic of the electrical wiring system for any Keystone product, there is none.

[dmacy]

They all look like that no matter who the manufacture is. You won't see any diffrent until you get into the million dollar coaches.

[Tom S.]

quote:Originally posted by pbahlin

Please don't take this as a knock on Keystone because I think this kind of thing is truly an industry problem. When I took the factory tour I couldn't help but think that for a 'mature' industry I was looking at amateur hour in terms of modern manufacturing practices.

The RV industry has been around for a long, long time. Go to the museum when you get to Elkhart. For some reason this is an industry that has never consolidated. There are hundreds of brands out there. Keystone has dozens all by themselves. And, if you back off of your 'favorites' for a bit you have to admit that there is just not much difference between them all. It seems to me that each brand is operating fairly independently when it comes to mfg. and each is more like an operation that remains more like a garage/home shop than a modern operation.

Here's an example. I've learned from folks in the automobile industry that wire lengths are computed and harnessed to accuracies less than an inch. Look at the wasted loops of wire in the photos. The loops add weight, power loss, and opportunities for abrasion that are inconsistent with the goals I would think are part of designing and building an RV.

My suspicion is that the industry might be uniquely an American one so far. It's never been run through the intensity of foreign competition eating their market share. None of the manufacturers have enough volume (by themselves) to go on a hunt for ways to save pennies on wire like car manufacturers do.

It's an industry ripe to be consumed by some aggressive competitor.

On the surface, I agree it looks apparent that the RV industry could take a lesson from the autos, but in reality, it's economy of scale. The autos make more of a specific model in a week than Montana makes all of it's various sized units in a year. Therefore pre-made wiring harnesses are not only a cost savings but a must. With the relatively small number of units Montana makes, I'm betting it would add significant cost to design and have wiring harnesses pre-made.

Of course none of this excuses the fact that an extra 10 minutes spent while the existing wire are completely exposed in the unit could make this mess a lot more presentable.

[CBTraveler]

Proper wire dressing would add only a few extra hours to the manufacturing time of these trailers. Maybe $60 to $100 extra cost in a $50,000 trailer.However there are no competitors that do it and most buyers will never see the difference so most executives would not give a darn. The American auto industry and also Electronics industry were forced to improve their quality by the Japanese who were taught by an American- W. Edwards Deming