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Old 10-29-2013, 04:09 PM   #1
Lije Baley
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No power to landing gear!

We finally got to use the crank to raise the kingpin enough to get the hitch under it . We had no power to the landing gear or rear stabilizers as we left our last camping spot.

On the way home we stopped at our local, but small, RV repair yard. They were able to isolate the problem to a complex "box" mounted behind the batteries. I think it's an electrical distribution box designed by Lippert, but haven't located it on Lippert's website. There are lots of electrical wires coming into it and many going out, to STB, ROOM, AWG and LIGHT. The immediate solution was to bypass the box, giving us power on to the landing gear, allowing us to drop the Montana at our storage yard. The service personnel are woefully unfamiliar with the Lippert box, and have asked me to check for any manuals I may have that cover it. I'll look, but am sure I've got nothing.

It's probably best to take the trailer to the dealer, but I'm curious whether others have had issues with this "box."

Bill
 
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Old 10-30-2013, 01:49 AM   #2
1retired06
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I believe you are referencing to the remote control module which controls slides, outside lights, landing gear and rear stabilizers? If so, there is a reset button.
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Old 10-30-2013, 04:59 AM   #3
Lije Baley
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Thanks. You are correct. The box is the remote control module. http://lci1.com/images/Flyers/LIPShe...structions.pdf We haven't used our remote in ages, as its battery is usually drained. (I didn't even think to try it before we cranked up the landing gear.) The slides were still working while the stabilizers and landing gear were not, so I'm not sure if the box needs a reset, but it's certainly worth a try.

Now, I've got to rewire the bypass the repair guy did and see if resetting the box solves my problem.



Thanks again.
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Old 10-30-2013, 05:18 AM   #4
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Just had to have my remote module replaced. The relay that energizes the switches failed so only the remote would work. If you don't use the remote, you can take the power feeds off the right side of the module and put them on the feeds at the top of the module. This bypasses the module and energizes the switches.
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Old 10-30-2013, 06:13 AM   #5
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I would leave the bypass in place. Mine was done 3 years ago without further incidents.
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Old 11-01-2013, 02:50 PM   #6
Lije Baley
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Our local RV service center undid their "hotwire" bypass for the landing gear. We reset the module and all systems worked with the remote control, but neither the landing gear, stabilizers nor room slides worked with the manual switches. We moved the "+" and "-" wires from the side of the module to the top, bypassing the remote function, as suggested by Ishler (thanks for that, as our mystified service techs had never encountered a remote module and were unaware of how to bypass the box). All systems worked on the manual switches. As we never use the remote, since its battery is always drained, we, like pineranch, will leave the bypass in place rather than replace the module.

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Old 11-01-2013, 05:44 PM   #7
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Bill: Here is a link to Jack Lyon's explanation of the problem and suggested fix. Basically what you have done already.
http://www.montanaowners.com/forums/...ad.php?t=46515
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Old 11-13-2013, 02:02 PM   #8
Lije Baley
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Thanks for the link to Jack's thread.

We're still having problems. This weekend when we raised the trailer to connect it to the truck, using the manual switches, the motor shut down, then restarted after a wait. We had to stop and start several times to finish hooking up.

The repair technician left in place both wires that were connected to the remote module at the top terminals, and added the hot and ground wires that had been connected to the right-side terminals to those same top terminals. I'm wondering if that is correctly configured. I may rewire it as in Jack's photo.

I spoke with Jack. He sent me a link to one of the original threads about this problem (there have been four or five in the past few years)that includes on page 4 the fix Carl Y copied and pasted into Jack's thread (is that clear?). At any rate, here's a thread detailing the problem (http://www.montanaowners.com/forums/...mote%2Ccontrol),that combined with Jack's thread, to which Carl provided a link in the post above this one, should help when the landing gear and stabilizers work with the remote, but not with the external switches.
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Old 11-13-2013, 03:19 PM   #9
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The stopping and starting sounds like the auto reset breaker kicking and resetting itself. If the weather go cold where you are that could cause the fluid to become thicker and the breaker to do that. We replaced ours, as per Keystone, with a higher amp breaker. Others have wired a pair of breakers in sequence.
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Old 11-13-2013, 03:34 PM   #10
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Don't know if all the wiring/rewiring somehow caused the new starting/stopping/starting/stopping problem. But as Dick said it is likely the auto reset circuit breaker. Many of us have had that problem. I first replaced my 50 amp auto reset breaker with a new 50 amp one. Worked for a year then started failing again. Replaced it with two 40 breakers wired in parallel. No more problems.
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Old 11-13-2013, 03:54 PM   #11
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DQDICK, you did mean two same rated breakers in parallel, not in sequence (serial). Either get a single 80amp or 100 amp, or dual 40amp or dual 50 amp in parallel. Electrically speaking, dual rated breakers are additive, but they must be the same rating and age. I don't believe it's a good idea to mix breakers. When I did my fix, I bought two brand new 40 amps, installed them in parallel and voila, slideout stuttering was fixed. Learned all about it in the MOC.
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Old 11-13-2013, 04:18 PM   #12
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Lije Baley

Thanks for the link to Jack's thread.

We're still having problems. This weekend when we raised the trailer to connect it to the truck, using the manual switches, the motor shut down, then restarted after a wait. We had to stop and start several times to finish hooking up.

The repair technician left in place both wires that were connected to the remote module at the top terminals, and added the hot and ground wires that had been connected to the left-side terminals to those same top terminals. I'm wondering if that is correctly configured. I may rewire it as in Jack's photo.
From reading the posts it appears you have moved the power cables that feed the remote receiver from the top right of the module and placed them on the terminals of the manual switches. Doing so eliminates the power to the module and only powers the Manual switches and that seemed to temporarily solve your problem.

As far as the picture posted in Jacks thread, the only modification made there was to move the ground wire from the Manual switch terminal to chassis ground which supposedly bypassed some "failsafe" circuit that prevents both the manual and remote switches from being able to be used at the same time. Nothing else was jumpered or moved in that fix.

What you are now describing as DQDick suggests is likely an issue with voltage and the current draw from your batteries. As the voltage drops on your batteries the current draw will rise and may very well trip the auto reset breaker, hence the stopping and starting. One way to determine if this is the problem is to plug the unit into shore power and move the slides, The converter will provide additional voltage to assist the batteries. If you do not have shore power at the storage area then boost the RV batteries from the TV to add additional battery power. If the problem goes away then you may have a battery problem. Make sure all connections are clean and tight.

Tomorrow I am going to personally confirm the existence or not, of this "failsafe" circuit. Mine has always worked on both the remote and manual switches, but I have not tried them at the same time. I use my remote exclusively so I can watch what is going on with the slides as I move them in and out. My ground for the manual switches is still in its original location on the remote module.

Before replacing my batteries I sometimes experienced what you have happening with yours now. I always plug into shore power before putting out the slides and bringing them in when packing up, and have never replaced my original 50 amp breakers.

Will let you know what I find out tomorrow.




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Old 11-13-2013, 06:59 PM   #13
Lije Baley
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Thanks. It may be the auto resetting circuit breaker. We replaced the similar breakers for our slides 2 years ago after they began stopping and starting as we moved them in and out. I'll first rewire the remote control module as Jack rewired his. If the shut-off of the landing gear motor continues, I'll increase the amperage of the circuit breaker.

We gave up using the remote long ago, as the batteries were always drained when we tried to use it. It had been so long that when the manual switches failed, I never thought of the remote and utilized the hand crank instead.
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Old 11-14-2013, 12:48 AM   #14
Phil P
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Hi

I had this problem while still under warranty. The dealer told me there wasn’t any warranty because I had retracted the landing gear too far. The problem with this was they had previously replaced the landing gear and they had retracted it so far they popped the inline fuse.

I still have one of the landing gear they replaced. When I get time I will take some pictures of it and show just how incompetent the dealer was.

However this is when I removed the remote module and replaced it with a fuse block and installed fuses the correct sizes for the wiring and appliance they were operating.

I haven’t popped a fuse since.


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Old 11-14-2013, 05:45 AM   #15
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Lije Baley

Thanks. It may be the auto resetting circuit breaker. We replaced the similar breakers for our slides 2 years ago after they began stopping and starting as we moved them in and out. I'll first rewire the remote control module as Jack rewired his. If the shut-off of the landing gear motor continues, I'll increase the amperage of the circuit breaker.

We gave up using the remote long ago, as the batteries were always drained when we tried to use it. It had been so long that when the manual switches failed, I never thought of the remote and utilized the hand crank instead.
Bill here is a picture of my remote module:



Note mine is not the same as yours nor Jacks because my landing gear and level up are all hydraulic, however most of it is the same.

Power to the module is at the two terminals on the top right, the black wire leads to the first of two 50 amp circuit breakers. This circuit breaker provides power to the slides and landing gear at all times and is not affected by the 12V battery cut off switch.

The two terminals at the top left where it is marked Manual Switches supply power to the manual room switches at the main panel inside the unit. If power into the module is removed, or power out of the module to the switch is removed you cannot operate the slides with the manual switch.

At all times "on mine" while there is power to the module the output to the manual switch is hot, that applies even when the remote is turned on and the led lights up on the module indicating the remote is active. I am able to operate the slides from either the remote or the manual switch in the unit. This indicates to me there is no "failsafe" system built into my module.

If you never intend to use the remote, then powering the Manual Switches at the top left terminals as you appear to have done should give you the ability to use your Manual Switches, so leave it that way.

If your module and Jacks do indeed have a "failsafe" that interrupts the ground on that circuit, then moving the ground to chassis ground would bypass the module. Why they would interrupt the ground I don't know but perhaps that is the way your module is designed.

If you intend to replace any circuit breakers I would recommend you use manual reset ones. That will always tell you if that is what has happened, self resetting are convenient but you never know for sure if that was the problem. Make sure you check your battery condition and all the connections.

A picture of what the dealer did would also be helpful.

I hope you find a solution that does not involve a lot of work or expense. Good luck.
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Old 11-15-2013, 01:56 AM   #16
Lije Baley
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Thanks. I may not be able to tackle this until mid-December. I'll probably rewire the ground bypass, to preserve the ability to use the remote, and replace the breaker with a 50 amp version. I'll post when I've made the changes.
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Old 12-14-2013, 04:29 PM   #17
Lije Baley
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I decided to leave the bypass in place. We've not used the remote in quite a while. I removed an automatic resetting circuit breaker and was surprised that it was rated at 5 amps. Unfortunately, it's not for the landing gear. I'll have to contort myself around the cabling and supports and replace it. Where did those old world craftsmen hide the landing gear breaker?

Bill
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