problems with their rv - Page 2 - Montana Owners Club

MuddyPaws · 09-01-2005, 05:55 PM

We've had our 2955 for almost a year and the only problems I've had with the unit itself was a leak under the shower. Easily fixed.

I did have major problems with the RV stealership and their lazy incompetent employees. I contacted Montana via this board and they called the lazy incompetents and got results for me.

We have no complaints at all with Montana and their customer service.

tollmann · 09-02-2005, 11:20 AM

I agree that when you call customer service good things happen. I am taking my unit in to the factory the day after the Great Lakes Rally. They have agreed to repair a couple of items that neither the dealer or I can figure out. My unit will be 2 years old and they are still doing it as warranty/customer goodwill.
Remember when you call curtomer service that they personally didn't build the unit so it isn't their fault.
Also the lemon law in our state {WI} doesn't cover anything that is not self propelled. You might want to check on the law in your state.

Montana_4454 · 09-03-2005, 04:58 AM

I keep reading horror stories of dealers that will do anything except fix a monty. I have a 2003 3255rl purchased in 2004 and have had a few problems that were fixed while i waited. My dealer is
leisure Time R.V.
9300 SE 29th
Midwest City Oklahoma73130
405-741-9300
these have been the greatest people to do business with from sales to parts to service.
I would recamend anyone with driving distance to come see these people.
Henry

montanagal · 09-03-2005, 09:03 AM

Sept. 3, 2005

Dear Brian & Stephanie,

You didn't specify what model you have, but we have Model 3400RL and purchased it June 1st, 2005 and have had nothing but one problem after another. This is our third trailer from Keystone and the worst as far as quality.

We had the following issues: Massive leak in the slide in bedroom (which caused damage to the mattress and all linnens), Living Room TV had no sound, the hollow core privacy door had two major scratches on it, the Sealand toilet leaked on the floor and the bowl does not hold water, the pilot light in the stove would not light, molding around front door was falling off, the screen door was warped, the seal in the freezed and refrig. door is very poor and causes condensation and mold,the hot water light is broken, Day/Night shade over kitchen table broke,and the handle on the freezer door broke. The only things that have been resolved are the TV, the hollow core door and only the leak in the toilet. Nothing else has been resolved.

We have contacted the following people at Keystone: Tom Brandon (Customer Relations)- Mike Mack (District Sales Manager)and Jeff Rank. Really has not done much good. I have a folder full of emails to and from all above and pictures of all problems and even with all this, at one point, they said thanks for the info and another email said, sorry, WE HAVE NEVER HEARD OF "THESE PEOPLE" BEFORE or THERE PROBLEMS.

I won't give up until all our issues have been resolved, as there are many other steps we can take to have these issues resolved.

In any event we still love our rig, but find it very discouraging to have to deal with this many issues.

Good Luck to you and if I can help out in anyway, please email me.

Sincerely,
Diana Dean
3400 RL
2002 Silverado 2500HD w/Allission Trans

HamRad · 09-03-2005, 04:09 PM

Montanagal,
Hang in there and be patient. We have had some major problems with our 2002 model 3295. It took a lot of time and we're still working on one remaining problem. But they fixed the broken overhang as well as the bedroom slide crack. It took much longer than it should have but thank goodness they finally got them fixed.

It did take a couple of exchanges with the dealer and between the dealer and Keystone. But as long as you remain calm and collected ----- I must admit I did not do too well with this when we first started ----- you will almost always get good results. For the most part Keystone stands behind the Montanas.

Good luck.

HamRad

mobilrvn · 09-20-2005, 08:25 PM

Yes, Montanas have problems! Yes, the factory stands behind their product--way behind! I doubt that our unit is in first place, but it has to be in the top ten. Except for a creaking bathroom floor which we still have, our initial 12 problems were due to basic poor workmanship/bad equipment. The dealer was OK. Then as our warranty was running out, we had another 8 items---mostly the same type of complains and some do overs. Then the fun began! Noticed obvious symptoms of a broken frame or similar problem.

Had an appointment at another dealer and we told him we had an additional problem than needed to be checked before we moved down the road. Two days before we had our appointment, the dealer blew us off. The first place which would helps us was about a 1,000 miles and three weeks away. Each time we stopped we would discover more damage, including walls that were tearing apart, cupboards that were collapsing, etc. When we got to the dealer, our list of items was now at 28. They messed around with us for 9 days, did a temporary fix which didn't work and a scheduled trip to the factory about 1,500 miles away. When we got it to the factory, the list was at 48 items plus the frame problem.

The factory personnel were accomodating, helpful and friendly. They also weren't very good at a lot of what they did. They had the rig for three days, but we had to bring it back a few days later to have the countertop replace (of course, they knew for months that they would have to replace it, but didn't have it ready). They did a poor job of installing the countertop. The caulking was poorly done and I had to replace a two foot section. We had the base for the support posts replaced and they managed to crack it again and to top it off, they installed one of the support posts upsidedown! Some items were just blown off. We now have an appointment with the original dealer again and our list is up to 8--all repeat items including the creaking bathroom floor.

When you pay the worker piece rate, that is what you get---poor quality. We spent several hours in the waiting room and could easily overhear the phone conversations between customer service and not happy campers for the most part on the other end of the phone. It was the same line a placating BS, over and over. There are a lot of problems out there. My only advise is not to let them skate on anything. Of course, this is hard to do when they want to keep your rig for days or weeks and it is easier to do it yourself, but make them pay for it if you can.

padredw · 09-21-2005, 05:08 AM

Patience, kindness, gentleness -- all are "fruits of the Spirit" and greatly to be desired. They should be expressed in all our relationships, but...

Exercising these gifts should not relieve the manufacturer or the dealer from their responsibility for obvious defects. I am struck by the wide variance in the responses that different members of this forum have reported. Some seem to get much better treatment than others in the attempt to resolve problems. That cannot be right.

One thing I have come to appreciate as I have read the experiences of other members of the forum is how fortunate we have been with our Montana 2955RL. We have had it for over three years and have traveled with it over 35000 miles. I speak with fear and trembling as I "knock on wood" and hope that my pride "doth NOT go before my fall."

We had one obvious defect at the very beginning. Looking back and comparing that with what many others have experienced, it didn't amount to much. BUT the one thing I most remember is how unwilling the folks at Goshen were to allow me to bring the RV back for correction. It would have been easily done and I was willing to do it, but was never allowed to. That experience has given me sympathy for those whose experience in resolving problems has not been satisfactory.

My basic point is: every customer should be treated alike and fairly in terms of warranty issues and the attitude or other personal attributes of the customer should remain a secondary issue. The policy of Keystone, et al regarding adjustments at the factory should be clear and should be explicitly and fairly applied to all customers.

Now, once again, I have had my say, and I thank you.

lightningjack11 · 09-21-2005, 06:40 AM

It is probably the people screaming the loudest that get action. I had to do it once.

It was always hard for me to understand staples in these units. On my last trip a couple of my kitchen drawers fell out and of course it was staples. Some of the staples holding the braces were only 3/8 of an inch for holding power. It had to fail.

But I am used to it. For every staple that fails I pull or grind it out and put a screw and brace in it. I just keep doing this.

But overall it has been a good unit giving us lots of enjoyment.

richfaa · 09-21-2005, 07:12 AM

Ahh padredw..you have also noticed the obvious. This is a very large forum and I also note a huge disparity between folks whose experience with Montana is a love in, Can't hardly say anything bad about the units and every thing has a happy ending.Then there are the many and growing number of owners whose relationship is a nightmare. As you point out everyone should receive the same treatment no matter what..Now we are going to buy a Montana because we think it is the best brand on the market for a number of reasons..However we are any manufactures worst nightmare.We will ask very politely and diplomatically once, twice maybe even three times that we have a issue that we need corrected. If not addressed the next person they hear from is a attorney and a law suit..that always gets results and I have to say we have a great deal of experience getting satisfaction from vendors when I worked for the Fed Government. Know exacptly what button to push and when.. It is easy..hit them where it will hurt the most.. Media and pocketbook. Hope we never have to do that..no reason for it???

CountryGuy · 09-21-2005, 08:03 AM

Risking getting flamed to no end here,

Get more bees with honey than with vinegar.

The employees at Keystone are human beings too, and try as they might, they may not fix all our warranty issues the first time.

Why do we know?? Cause we are one of those families that got a unit with more than our fair share of difficulties. And cause it took 3 trips back to the service center to have one problem fixed.

And, we are one of those families that has nothing BUT GOOD to say about Keystone. They don't ask us to say nice things, or anything like that.

We were always nice to them, they have been MORE than nice to us. We learned a lot about Keystone and our unit while we were there each time. It has been a great experience. Don't get me wrong, I would love to say, we had a perfect unit! Taking it back and the stress worrying about it is NO FUN!! It really stinks. BUT!!!! The people that work at the service center were as nice as they could be, in fact, the people that we dealt with there ARE SOME OF THE NICEST people we have ever had the pleasure to deal with and work with.

I am not about to start listing all the things that Keystone has fixed on our rig, there might not be enough web space. A lot, and I mean a LOT of that long long list were small items, but, some of them were NOT so small, including the slide problem that we kept going back for. Also had some axle and tire issues (our tires were bald on the inside with about 6,000 miles, I think that is an issue!)

Nope, they are not perfect, and they don't get every single thing fixed the very first time, but they get bonus points for trying. And, TONS of bonus points for trying and being nice at the same time!

As have said before, will say again, we wish that all of ya get great units right out of the factory, but they are put together by human beings, none of which are perfect, just like me! HA HA. Hope NONE of you has to go through what Al and I have! And, YES, we WILL purchase from Keystone again, as long as they have a service center and stand behind their product. With that huge new service center they are building, I think I can say Keystone is dedicated to helping those of us who need service.

I stand back and await the flames!

lightningjack11 · 09-21-2005, 08:24 AM

No flames here. I bought mine without warranty and I am pretty satisfied. I have had a lot of quality issues but I just take care of them myself.

My dealer used to tell me that what they get from Keystone is a kit and they put all the finishing touches and adjustments on it prior to selling it. Evidently there are a lot of dealers that don't do this.

I sympathize will all the people that put a fortune into these rigs and not get to use them until the bugs are out such as slide leakage. Water can be pretty destructive.

richfaa · 09-21-2005, 08:28 AM

I also think they have the best customer service in the business.That is the primary reason we are buying a Montana..However..there are a growing number of folks that get little satisfaction..wonder why.Take a look at the keystone home page then click on Montana and read all the paragraphs.I like the one on Quality. These are keystone/ Montana's words..not mine. This is what Montana says they will deliver if I buy their product...I see no however or qualifiers..This is what I expect and will hold them to their own words and if they fail to deliver in any way everyone and anyone should receive satisfaction..no matter what....Are we saying that everyone who has a negative experience with Montana is at fault and if they were just..real nice...all would be well????? hummmm... that does not compute.....

padredw · 09-21-2005, 08:33 AM

Not flames, friend Carol -- and you always have been and continue to be a good friend on this forum -- but notice carefully the main point that I tried to make: everyone should be treated alike. If the 'service center' is open to one, it should be open to all.

And, for the record, I expect I'm about as happy with our Montana as any owner out there, and have shared that pleasure in many conversations.

What prompted my post was the vast difference that some owners have reported (including my own very limited experience) as compared to others. And, based on my own experience, I simply do not believe that it can all be attributed to the attitude or manner of the owners who have experienced difficulty.

Just want to be sure exactly what my point is, not to correct other views or to engage in conflict.

CountryGuy · 09-21-2005, 08:38 AM

Tom and Betty,

For all our trouble, so far, knock on wood, there have not been ANY leaks around the slides. Our hearts cry for those MOC members who have had to deal with slide leaks!

I think we had one of those dealers WHO DON'T! How would you feel if he allowed an employee to walk all over the roof of a brand new unit (well, ANY unit) with greesy shoes and then not even attempt to clean it? And that is just ONE of a long list of problems we had with the dealer. It got a lot worse than that!

Nope, cannot bash Keystone and the service center, can and do bash the dealer/stealer. I don't say his name, but it is on the back end of our unit for all to see.

It is very upsetting to have NO relationship with the dealer/stealer and then have something serious go wrong with your unit. Keystone, in our case, stepped up to the batters box and hit a home run, had to hit a few singles to get us there, but the home run did happen!

CountryGuy · 09-21-2005, 09:07 AM

David

Point taken, Again, stated, your experience is not what ours was. I have no idea why that happens, and it is disconcerning! Those who have attended the two Rally's in Bremen will probably also question this situation, as I think most will say that they were treated very well, and much concern was expressed as to any problems we have with units.

Maybe some just hit a bad day at the office?? I have no idea, so cannot offer up any suggestions other than those many have already stated, go in and talk nicey nicey!

Sitting on the other side of that phone at the service center must be a very stressful job, talking all day long to hysterical and sometimes demanding people. I gotta tell you, I would last about 5 minutes in that job. I do know they get yelled at a lot, people are tired of dealing with the dealer/stealers and call the service center all steamed and ready for the kill. Nope, I don't want that job! UGHHHH.

I think this might be an example of the world being what it is, a wonderful, but imperfect place to live and deal with. We all want units that stand up to the promises made by Keystone. I know they would like the dealer/stealers to fix your units, they surely don't want all of em coming back to the service center (GULP).

We can only report our experience, that was the dealer/stealer was great during the sale, and tried to deliver a unit to us that was dirty and needed tweaking, and walked all over the roof with greasy shoes and did not install options that we asked them to do correctly. We had to take directions from the internet to the dealer to get them to install options correctly. They wanted our coin and were reasonably responsive until they had their check. They had to wait a week for said check, cause we had a LONG list of stuff found during a 8 hour PDI! After the coin passed, their service went in the waste basket, and their attitude was even worse. It got rather ugly, with both feeling they were lied to by the other. Those of you that know us from the forum know we are sometimes painfully honest. I have even been called on that, someone wanted to know how I could state such and such, and why did I support Keystone. The issue that I got called on had nothing to do with Keystone, maybe a vendor, but not Keystone. I replied, I was just telling my story from my point of view. Anyway, being accused of telling lies by the dealer/stealer did not sit real well. There was no longer a way to work with the dealer/stealer.

When the dealer and purchaser can no longer come to an understanding, then hopefully Keystone steps in. They did just that in our case.

Again, why are some of us happy with Keystone and others not, I don't have the answer. We would all hope for equal treatment. Fraid the world does not treat us all equal. It ain't fair, but that is reality.

Repeating again, Al and I hope that every single one of you gets a perfect unit, or near as perfect as can humanly be possible. If you don't we hope that you can work with your dealer, and not have the stealer that we had. If that fails, then your calls to the service center and Keystone, well, we wish you the best, and feel you will get the best they can humanly offer. Keystone may not deliver a perfect unit from the plant, but they will do everything they can to get it that way after the sale!

Or, at least they did for us.

I have other thoughts on this that I would rather keep to myself, cause if I stated them, I surely would get flamed right off MOC!

Here is to equal treatment and perfect units! Hope ya all get both!

lightningjack11 · 09-21-2005, 12:37 PM

I hope they get perfect units too. In the meantime I will just continue my repairs.

CountryGuy · 09-21-2005, 12:45 PM

Tom and Betty

You sure can control the quality that way, can't ya??

richfaa · 09-21-2005, 12:46 PM

Got a question..might sound stupid but what does flaming mean..must be bad ..but I do not know the meaning??And yes customer service listening to irate customers all day would not be a pleasent job....but..know what..it goes with the territory.
Remember the customer is unhappy because they did not get what Montana promised.I think any of us would be regardless of the product...Having said all of the above.. We are still buying a Montana but that does not mean we will roll over and play dead when we have a problem and I think that those of us that DO NOT roll over and play dead get results and those that do..get no results.Should make no difference we should all get equal treatment..Think that is what padredw is saying..and we support that view..Hopefully we will place our order for the 3670 in October..depends on the delivery date....

CountryGuy · 09-21-2005, 01:11 PM

Many times the customer is unhappy because the DEALER did not deliver, as in repairs he should be able to do. SIGHHHH

Flaming is attacking someone quite viciously on the internet in a forum such as this, many times attacking their personality instead of the substance of what they said. It is usually quite snarly and mean hearted. It is something that rarely happens here at MOC, and is one of the things that MOC members appreciate, as well as the admins that keep it down to a minimum, or NONE!

We hope all get equal treatment, we should not play dead, nope. But, we also need to face the reality that it is not a perfect world. How bout how many times we have had the oil changed on the GMC and they have dumped in too much oil, even tho we repeatedly remind them it is ONLY 6.5 quarts! They insist on dumping in 7! Al gently but firmly insists on them removing the extra half quart, PERIOD.

IN the long run it is how we handle the trouble, someone said it earlier in this thread, oh, it was Garin1, who said: "Remember, anything made by man can and probably will break. How we react to these little challenges is an indicator of the kind of people we are." What a great sentence that is!!!!! Specially the part about anything made by man!

Owning a RV, a challenge to the pocket book, the soul, the angst and temper. Owning a RV, a fantastic experience, a learning experience, a different experience every time we venture out and about! Be handy with your hands and handy with your money, it is gonna take both to keep it running down the HARD road.

richfaa · 09-21-2005, 02:22 PM

Thanks for the definition of flaming...same as bashing.Understand the dealer issue, been there..However Montana is ultimately responsible for the dealers actions regarding their product.Local dealer nearby handles 3 Keystone products(not Montana however) and has nothing but good things to say about his relationship with keystone.If fact he says that if I need warranty work on my Montana he will do it and yes anything made by a PERSON can and probably will break..once , twice maybe three times but after 10 or 15 times you might suspect that there is something wrong with that person(or RV maker)This forum and the good folks in it are most helpful in sharing their experiences and fixes for the many problems. We have a folder full of information on problems and fixes..hope we never open it..

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