Maiden Voyage/Smelly Water...?!

[BucBuckeye]

I'm just back from spending two weeks in my 2008 Monty (31 RLD) - what a WONDERFUL trip!

I've set the TT up on some land I bought in northern Michigan. Completed a well that was sunk several years ago (drilled & capped for several years until we had a pump installed the first day of the first week of our arrival). I set up a hose bib with a "Y" connector near the Monty, and let the water run for two hours to make sure the water was good and clear. It's only 7 miles to Lake Michigan so I figured it would be great water - and after running it for more than the required time - found that the water clarity was very clear & it smelled great! I did take a "sample" drink - but only a small one (it tasted terrific)!

We decided we wouldn't use the water for drinking until after I could take it in to get it tested. We did, however, use it for showering, brushing our teeth, etc.

While taking showers, the water initially smelled great, no odor at all..I was very pleased and also very tempted to drink it, but decided it would be more prudent to await the test report (at the wife's behest, I did run down Wally World to buy an RV water filter - which I made sure to hook up in the correct direction, and ran water through it for about 30 minutes before attaching between the hose bib and my camper).

However...just two days before we were scheduled to leave & head back down to our swampy southern home (just us, our camper stayed on our land - we're planning to make it a permanent fixture)...we began to notice a smell. I have to say that it never smelled (to me) like rotten eggs, but had more of a hydrocarbon smell to it (after initially thinking it was "rotten-eggy" - my wife now agrees it has more of a diesel/natural-gas, smell).

It's not strong mind you, it's more like you catch an undeniable hint of it in the air while you're showering/brushing your teeth. Also, after showering and brushing our teeth, neither our skin, nor breath, smelled of hydrocarbons - just the water.

I didn't learn about the hot water heater's anode rod issue until getting in tonight and checking-in with this forum - so I can't tell you if we only smelled it while running just the hot water - but I can say that we did notice it while brushing our teeth - and we only used hot water for this (i.e., by the time it got really hot we would be finished - and mostly because the cold water was SO cold it made our teeth hurt!).

I'm thinking/hoping that the smell is due to the water heater anode rod (and not the well). My thinking is that if it were the well, wouldn't we have smelled it immediately? Instead it only materialized after hooking up the Wally World filter and then only after running it for nearly two weeks...?

I'm awaiting the test report - until then - any thoughts?

We won't be going back until October - so any repairs/replacements will have to wait until then - but I'd like to be prepared to fix this when we get back to paradise! Replacing an anode is a HECK of a lot better than sinking a new well, but it's better than having a well compromised with hydrocarbons...yech!

[Ronthecanadian]

Contact the local municipal water suppliers in the area around your new site. They can tell you if there is a known issue in the area. Also any neighbours. You should have received a well record when the well was drilled. it will describe the material the well driller encountered and depth. If your well is in shale type material, or fracking operations are nearby then yes you may have a hydrocarbon issue.
The nearest municipal water supplier can give guidance and a local water testing lab info to test for hydrocarbons.

[kdeiss]

I have found the Hot Water Tank to be the culperate, TWO of our neighbors here in the Campground in the last two weeks developed an odor. After a Hot Water Heater Flush and adding bleech through the hos3 and lines in both cases smell gone.
Hope this will fix your problem and not well. GOOD LUCK

[BucBuckeye]

Originally Posted by Ronthecanadian

Contact the local municipal water suppliers in the area around your new site. They can tell you if there is a known issue in the area. Also any neighbours. You should have received a well record when the well was drilled. it will describe the material the well driller encountered and depth. If your well is in shale type material, or fracking operations are nearby then yes you may have a hydrocarbon issue.
The nearest municipal water supplier can give guidance and a local water testing lab info to test for hydrocarbons.

Ron, thank you for the detail. I will absolutely ask the previous owner of the land if they will forward me a copy of the well report - but again - the previous owners drilled the well, but did not install a pump. Apparently, if you can prove a a requisite percentage of Native American blood, a landowner could drill the well and send the bill to the state of Michigan. As I understand it, the landowner would be responsible for the cost of completing it by adding the pump(?). The previous owners did not complete it/add the pump.

Long story short, unless the state keeps records of these wells from 2007 (when the well was drilled and capped) I doubt I'll get my hands on the drilling report.

Now, regarding fracking in northwestern Michigan...you've just made me aware of yet another layer to this onion...a brief google search revealed fracking for natural gas in this previous pristine part of Michigan began in earnest a few years ago...hoping this is NOT the case...but I am concerned.

In October, I guess I'll start the process of elimination by replacing the anode rod in the water heater, then I'll flush the water heater, and see what happens.

...your post definitely has me concerned.

[jeff_banning]

I have iron and iron bacteria tested (both are safe) in my well water and actually had to take the anode rod out of my hotwater tank at the house and if I don't drain the hotwater tank on my campers after every trip the smell will get bad. I still have to drain the hot water tank at my house couple times a year even with no anode in it.

[BucBuckeye]

Originally Posted by kdeiss

I have found the Hot Water Tank to be the culperate, TWO of our neighbors here in the Campground in the last two weeks developed an odor. After a Hot Water Heater Flush and adding bleech through the hos3 and lines in both cases smell gone.
Hope this will fix your problem and not well. GOOD LUCK

Thanks kdeiss - this gives me a bit more hope!

I'll definitely start by replacing the hot water anode rod in the water heater, then flush & bleach.

If I decide to replace the anode rod (there is some debate as to whether we should bypass the water heater and go with something like a Renai tankless water heater), do you know the type of metal the anode rod should be (i.e., aluminum)?

I seem to recall reading an article some time ago (maybe from back when I had my Jayco 5th wheel, 10 years ago), regarding the culprit being a reactance between the metal (magnesium?) used in the water heater with sulfites/sulfides in the water in certain areas - but I honestly can't remember what metal the article recommended for the replacement?!

Thanks again - hope this does the trick

[Carl n Susan]

Another possible cause may be the washer/dryer plumbing. If your unit is plumbed for a washer, but one has not been installed and the place where it would go is near the sink/shower, then that plumbing can stagnate and get very funky. The good news is it is easy to fix. Just flush the washer lines by attaching a hose and letting it run for a while.

I couldn't locate a floor plan for a 2008 31RLD (Mountaineer perhaps?) on the Keystone website so the washer may or may not be appropriate. Also a Search on "washer dryer smell" will expose a number of postings on this very topic. In particular, this *ONE* describes what I wrote re the stagnate washer lines.

[BucBuckeye]

Originally Posted by jeff_banning

I have iron and iron bacteria tested (both are safe) in my well water and actually had to take the anode rod out of my hotwater tank at the house and if I don't drain the hotwater tank on my campers after every trip the smell will get bad. I still have to drain the hot water tank at my house couple times a year even with no anode in it.

Thanks Jeff! I guess my tankless water heater comment shows my ignorance - after thinking it through, any water heater would still utilize an anode to heat the water, wouldn't it?

...but your mentioning of testing the iron & iron bacteria jolted me back to reality...maybe the best option remains the tankless water heater, as the lack of a tank eliminates potential reactance between the anode and the iron particulate in the holding tank of the water heater...

So, maybe now that that's been solved, anyone have input for some names of the best RV tankless water heaters? ...it's possible I'm showing my ignorance again (perhaps any tankless water heater will work on a home or an RV)?!

[CaptnJohn]

Originally Posted by BucBuckeye

Thanks Jeff! I guess my tankless water heater comment shows my ignorance - after thinking it through, any water heater would still utilize an anode to heat the water, wouldn't it?

...but your mentioning of testing the iron & iron bacteria jolted me back to reality...maybe the best option remains the tankless water heater, as the lack of a tank eliminates potential reactance between the anode and the iron particulate in the holding tank of the water heater...

So, maybe now that that's been solved, anyone have input for some names of the best RV tankless water heaters? ...it's possible I'm showing my ignorance again (perhaps any tankless water heater will work on a home or an RV)?!

You will find the same number of people that like their tankless as those that dislike them, some have even removed them and added traditional gas/electric models.

[BucBuckeye]

Originally Posted by CaptnJohn

You will find the same number of people that like their tankless as those that dislike them, some have even removed them and added traditional gas/electric models.

How did I know it wasn't going to be that easy!?

So, is the answer - as jeff_banning suggested - to replace the anode rod in the water heater/flush the tank/bleach the lines/drain the water heater (repeat)...each time I visit my Michigan property?

...if so, that brings me back to asking what type of metal to order the new anode rod for the water heater in (aluminum, magnesium, or *other*)!?

Regardless, thanks so much for the comments everyone - I really appreciate all your help!

[BucBuckeye]

Originally Posted by BucBuckeye

what type of metal to order the new anode rod for the water heater in (aluminum, magnesium, or *other*)!?

Never mind! I just found the answer "here"!

[BucBuckeye]

Originally Posted by carl n susan

Another possible cause may be the washer/dryer plumbing. If your unit is plumbed for a washer, but one has not been installed and the place where it would go is near the sink/shower, then that plumbing can stagnate and get very funky. The good news is it is easy to fix. Just flush the washer lines by attaching a hose and letting it run for a while.

I couldn't locate a floor plan for a 2008 31RLD (Mountaineer perhaps?) on the Keystone website so the washer may or may not be appropriate. Also a Search on "washer dryer smell" will expose a number of postings on this very topic. In particular, this *ONE* describes what I wrote re the stagnate washer lines.

Yes, sorry Carl n Susan (Susan?) for not being clear about that, ours is a Mountaineer (Travel Trailer)...and I'm not certain where the washer/dryer units are for this model, but I seem to recall the original owner we bought it from, mentioning the closet space, does that sound right?

[Carl n Susan]

Yup, the front closet in the bedroom is the usual location of the washer prep. Keystone deleted the floor plans web site for the Mountaineer when they killed off the brand.

[Ronthecanadian]

Originally Posted by BucBuckeye

Ron, thank you for the detail. I will absolutely ask the previous owner of the land if they will forward me a copy of the well report - but again - the previous owners drilled the well, but did not install a pump. Apparently, if you can prove a a requisite percentage of Native American blood, a landowner could drill the well and send the bill to the state of Michigan. As I understand it, the landowner would be responsible for the cost of completing it by adding the pump(?). The previous owners did not complete it/add the pump.

Long story short, unless the state keeps records of these wells from 2007 (when the well was drilled and capped) I doubt I'll get my hands on the drilling report.

Now, regarding fracking in northwestern Michigan...you've just made me aware of yet another layer to this onion...a brief google search revealed fracking for natural gas in this previous pristine part of Michigan began in earnest a few years ago...hoping this is NOT the case...but I am concerned.

In October, I guess I'll start the process of elimination by replacing the anode rod in the water heater, then I'll flush the water heater, and see what happens.

...your post definitely has me concerned.

Here in Ontario the provincial government (Ministry of Environment) retains a copy of the Well records, if you know who drilled the well they may also be required to retain a copy.

Fracking is known to cause major issues with local well owners in other jurisdictions, as a former water operator in a large municipality I have talked with many US operators dealing with this issue.
I hope this is not the case, depending on the chemicals used by the fracking companies, the solution can become complicated.

Best of luck on the solution

[BucBuckeye]

Originally Posted by Ronthecanadian

Here in Ontario the provincial government (Ministry of Environment) retains a copy of the Well records, if you know who drilled the well they may also be required to retain a copy.

Fracking is known to cause major issues with local well owners in other jurisdictions, as a former water operator in a large municipality I have talked with many US operators dealing with this issue.
I hope this is not the case, depending on the chemicals used by the fracking companies, the solution can become complicated.

Best of luck on the solution

Thanks Ron, I'm in no way intending to be political here, my own opinion on fracking continues to vacillate. On the one hand, we may soon need every energy solution the US has to offer - on the other: NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard)!

To clarify, perhaps it could be limited to areas OTHER than pristine freshwater lake systems?!

Now, regarding the well report, we're now in possession of it. It's 8 years old and they never hit shale. They drilled through a lot of clay, clay mixed with boulders, and even limestone - but no shale.

However, I live in Florida, and I am very familiar with fickle, yet deadly, radon gas - I believe it's best explained as what happens when deep pockets of natural gas are disturbed and begins it's trek towards the surface - it sometimes passes through uranium layers that irradiate it - changing it forever into a toxic mess. Sometimes this gas migrates into homes. It is heavier than air, so it travels along the floor. Depending on the flow rate and the build-up, it can pose a threat to any living thing that inhales it. The young, the old, or those with weakened immune systems are most susceptible. Like carbon monoxide, it's odorless, colorless, and tasteless...but if it can be vented into the air outside your home it can be quickly dissipated and becomes a non-issue. It really only becomes a killer if it's undetected. Once detected, systems can be obtained that trap & redirect it, and vented above/outside the home.

It gets me thinking, if radon behaves this way, natural gas probably can as well - right?

After watching some YouTube videos, it strikes me that one cheap way of detecting if it is a hydrocarbon is...to turn on a faucet and then strike a match next to it (...then my wife reminds me that we're in a camper, which is about as combustible as a mobile home)!

I was told by a veteran well driller to run the water into the woods behind my camper for about 2 to 3 hours, then take a sample in for testing. He said sometimes when you smell gas...it IS gas...but sometimes gas...moves on!?

I will do this, then I will remove/replace the anode rod, drain & flush the water heater, add some bleach at the hose, reconnect the water hose...pray...and then just wait for the test report!

I'll post a follow up to this thread mid-October!

[mlh]

I think you touched on something. On our side of the Roanoke Valley Va. the south side we have great water. We are in limestone county. Our well is 120 feet deep and drops off in a cave with 30 feet of water in it. On the other side of the valley it's shell rock country. They have water worse than horrible, it's sulfur and iron. It will ruin your clothing and even the fixtures.
Lynwood

[BucBuckeye]

Originally Posted by BucBuckeye

Thanks Jeff! I guess my tankless water heater comment shows my ignorance - after thinking it through, any water heater would still utilize an anode [strike]to heat the water, wouldn't it[/strike]?

...but your mentioning of testing the iron & iron bacteria jolted me back to reality...maybe the best option remains the tankless water heater, as the lack of a tank eliminates potential reactance between the anode and the iron particulate in the holding tank of the water heater...

So, maybe now that that's been solved, anyone have input for some names of the best RV tankless water heaters? ...it's possible I'm showing my ignorance again (perhaps any tankless water heater will work on a home or an RV)?!

EDIT: STILL didn't have the purpose of the sacrificial anode rod...

[jeff_banning]

Rod is made of magnesium or aluminum that's formed around a steel core wire and is screwed into the front of the tank. ... When the tank is filled with water, an electrochemical process begins whereby sacrificial anodes are consumed in lieu of the water attacking the steel inside the tank. I pulled the Anode rod out of my house hot water heater 12 years ago... not sure how much it helps or hurts.

[BucBuckeye]

UPDATE: Thanks everyone - before starting our 5 weeks (split between summer & fall) this year I ordered a few anode rods and installed one on my first trip up.

The Frau had a copy of the old well test report - all within range.

We think some of the smell was from the older corroded anode - it was almost eaten completely away - but some of the smell was also from the new well pump we installed. The well company said that they occasionally get some complaints about a weird smell after a new install because the PVC pipe weld has some chemicals that need to be washed out with a good long run...we did that and replaced the anode...GREAT tasting water!

Thanks SO much for the advice and items to check - just wanted to update everyone and thank you all again!