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Old 10-07-2013, 11:17 AM   #1
hybridhauler
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Hydraulic Fluid for 6 point leveling system

I have a question that ya'll may be able to help with. What type of hydraulic fluid is used for the 6 point leveling system. One dealer suggests an Automatic transmission fluid but I would rather top the system off with the correct fluid. ATF may be an acceptable substitute but I would not want to use it unless the complete hydraulic system was flushed.
 
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Old 10-07-2013, 11:54 AM   #2
Carl n Susan
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This has been discussed many times before. A "Search" will uncover a set of topics with a consistent answer. Use the cheapest automatic transmission fluid you can buy. That is what is in the system to start with. MIMF used to work for hydraulic slide supplier (the same hydraulics drive the Level-Up) and has posted numerous times to just use ATF.

If you have a popping issue with the Level-Up you might consider Lippert's recommendation about adding stiction reducing fluid. I had a leak and after the repair I had to add a quart of ATF. The popping issues that were there from day one disappeared after adding more ATF. I think the new ATF was slipperier than the original fluid and solved two problems.
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Old 10-07-2013, 01:13 PM   #3
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Carl
I fully understand the "search" function and my initial search did not show me any definite information on the subject. This is why I posted the question. It does peterbs me a bit when someone thinks that no searching is done by others prior to asking questions. Thanks for your input on the subject.
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Old 10-07-2013, 01:27 PM   #4
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Get a small sample on a piece of white paper, if the fluid is a redish color it is ATF, if it is a clear to honey color it is hydraulic oil, ATF is about 7 weight, thin, #46 hydraulic oil is 15 weight, thicker, my bet is ATF, #46 oil in cold conditions will not flow well at all, if it is ATF as Carl said, just buy the least expensive fluid you can find
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Old 10-07-2013, 02:31 PM   #5
hybridhauler
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The fluid is clear and has the characteristics of hydraulic fluid. This is why I am reluctant to just top it off with ATF. I spoke with a dealer today and he stated that the units come shipped with a light hydraulic oil but could not verify the specifics on the oil. He also stated that they use ATF but to use the ATF would require flushing the system of the existing oil and then the ATF can be used.
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Old 10-07-2013, 04:35 PM   #6
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So that dealer flushes any systems that he adds ATF to???


Quote:
quote:Originally posted by hybridhauler

The fluid is clear and has the characteristics of hydraulic fluid. This is why I am reluctant to just top it off with ATF. I spoke with a dealer today and he stated that the units come shipped with a light hydraulic oil but could not verify the specifics on the oil. He also stated that they use ATF but to use the ATF would require flushing the system of the existing oil and then the ATF can be used.
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Old 10-07-2013, 05:22 PM   #7
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Although I'm personally just talking hydraulic slideouts, this can apply to level up systems as well... my unit came with the light oil that looks like cooking oil. I've topped it off with cheap ATF shortly after I bought it, the oils mixed, I've had no issues for 3 years. I didn't consider it a substitute. The dealers "flush" probably amounts to draining the reservoir and adding ATF. To truly flush the system, he'd had to take all the lines off the cylinders to flush them out as well as cycle each cylinder a few times to flush them out ... I can guaran-damn-tee you that doesn't happen. Several of us have "mixed" the fluids with no issue ... it won't hurt any of the seals as the major requirement is any light wt oil. As said earlier, if you have popping there is an anti stiction additive to put in the reservoir.
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Old 10-07-2013, 05:41 PM   #8
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by hybridhauler

Carl
I fully understand the "search" function and my initial search did not show me any definite information on the subject. This is why I posted the question. It does peterbs me a bit when someone thinks that no searching is done by others prior to asking questions. Thanks for your input on the subject.
Well if you had mentioned that a Search hadn't helped, I would have probably responded differently. My quick Search returned 59 topics and these jumped out as obvious hits.

http://www.montanaowners.com/forums/...38&whichpage=2
http://www.montanaowners.com/forums/...ad.php?t=51254
http://www.montanaowners.com/forums/...ad.php?t=51273
http://www.montanaowners.com/forums/...ad.php?t=48839
http://www.montanaowners.com/forums/...ad.php?t=42495
http://www.montanaowners.com/forums/...ad.php?t=41462
http://www.montanaowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35411
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Old 10-07-2013, 05:55 PM   #9
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No good deed goes unpunished Carl
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Old 10-08-2013, 12:50 AM   #10
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by hybridhauler

The fluid is clear and has the characteristics of hydraulic fluid. This is why I am reluctant to just top it off with ATF. I spoke with a dealer today and he stated that the units come shipped with a light hydraulic oil but could not verify the specifics on the oil. He also stated that they use ATF but to use the ATF would require flushing the system of the existing oil and then the ATF can be used.
If I'm not mistaken, what Lippert told us in the seminar at the rally was, if it's clear, use the clear hydraulic fluid, if it's any other color, use any ATF.
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Old 10-08-2013, 12:50 AM   #11
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Carl
My apologies if my reply seemed harsh or was taken the wrong way. My search results only came back with only three topics about hydraulic fluid. On many sites I have visited over the years, some are quick to tell the new guys to use the search feature not knowing if they have searched the topics or not. In other instances, some people are unaware of the proper keywords needed for a proper search to be successful.
That being said, whether or not ATF is acceptable, I am still curious to find out what is put in the hydraulic systems when the units are built and tested.
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Old 10-08-2013, 01:06 AM   #12
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Call Lippert and ask.
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Old 10-08-2013, 01:59 AM   #13
hybridhauler
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Steves,
That's at the top of my list of things to do today. I surfed the interweb for 2 hours last night and never found out what oil is installed at the factory.
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Old 10-08-2013, 02:11 AM   #14
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Let us know what they say!
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Old 10-09-2013, 04:09 PM   #15
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I went to the Lippert Towable RV Component Manual provided with our BS Montana purchase. If you have that manual refer to Page 12 under section Filling Directions.

It basically states Lippert uses ATF fluid. They go on to suggest Dexron II, Dexron III. or Mercon 5. Hope that helps.
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Old 10-10-2013, 05:48 AM   #16
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The Lippert rep at the Rally did in fact state that if the fluid was clear to use hydraulic fluid and if it was red to use ATF. We just left Lippert day before yesterday after getting the main slide ram replaced due to an internal leak. While waiting for the job to be finished I asked the tech that was doing the work the same question and was told the same thing as the rep told us at the rally. If clear use hydraulic, if red use ATF.
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Old 10-11-2013, 01:01 AM   #17
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Exnavydiver

The Lippert rep at the Rally did in fact state that if the fluid was clear to use hydraulic fluid and if it was red to use ATF. We just left Lippert day before yesterday after getting the main slide ram replaced due to an internal leak. While waiting for the job to be finished I asked the tech that was doing the work the same question and was told the same thing as the rep told us at the rally. If clear use hydraulic, if red use ATF.
THANK YOU!!!!

Didn't think anyone was listening to what I said!!
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Old 10-11-2013, 10:51 AM   #18
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Gang, the old Challenger came with the clear fluid originally. At one point during that summer, I had to add fluid to the reservoir. It WAS ATF red in color and I bought the cheapest crap I could find at Wally-World!! The quart bottle said Dexron/DexronIII- Mercon/Mercon5 on the label. I had NO issue. Then in late October of 2005 while my Challenger was setting out behind the plant after I returned from the National Rally in Reno or Minden, NV, an issue on another manufacturers unit arose that had hydraulic slide rooms and landing gear of that time. Long story short.....the pump and landing gear was taken from brand X and installed in my Challenger for R & D purposes. When that pump and landing gear was installed, we filled the system with the RED ATF.

Here it is, eight (8) years later and the system and slide rooms have operated flawlessly!! And, I know for a fact, the oil that was in all 4 of the cylinders for the slide rooms was not drained and replaced because.......I was there!

Hybridhauler, I worked for another manufacturer before I retired the first of November of 2011 that used the same level-up and slide system you have on that Montana. They filled the system with the RED ATF. I guaran-damn-tee you that mixing WILL NOT hurt a thing. If the slides are all in, and the 6 point level-up all retracted (when unit is hooked to the truck) is the best time to add fluid if, you need to. Then, add only enough to raise the level to about 1/2 inch from the yellow fill cap.

Good luck and let us know what happens.
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Old 10-11-2013, 02:08 PM   #19
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Tks Dale. You said it better than I could have and the bottom line is clear...or red...or pink!!! Tks. an attempt at humor to a good topic...
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Old 10-11-2013, 04:48 PM   #20
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This is similar to the subjects I eluded to in my "Mirror Mirror" post. We are needlessly dissecting this down to the last atom. I'm going to back up Dale with a bit of logic along with the fact that I called Lippert yesterday and talked to a tech. It seems it all depends on what tech you speak to ... mine at (574-537-8900) relayed to me that they reccommend ATF ( Dextron 3 or Mercon 5). Keystone chooses to stock the clear oil on the assembly lines for their own reasons. Think about the following in just straight forward logic. The main purpose of any fluid in a hydraulic system that simply operates actuators (cylinders) is the transmission of power produced by the pump. ATF and light hydraulic oil are both considered hydraulic fluids ... each just has different additives. Since all we are doing on our hydraulic systems is moving a load (slide-outs or landing gear legs) we have no need to be concerned with much else as in additives that help absorb combustion gasses or friction additives that address clutch wear. Most all we need to be concerned with is fluid compatibility with the seals, a fluid that doesn't foam, and has a weight light enough to properly function in colder climates. There is no difference in the cylinder seals, the pump seals, or the hydraulic hoses in our units between a system that has ATF or a system that has light hydraulic oil ... the part numbers are simply the same. So bottom line is ... either will work in our systems in fact a mix will work in our systems as all we are doing is moving a load ... period. ATF is way easier to find, but buy what pleases you ... just don't "pop a cork" over this as our applications just don't call for fluids of any special makeup other than above stated. I'll now step away from my soapbox ...
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