Go Back   Montana Owners Club - Keystone Montana 5th Wheel Forum > MOC on M.A.R.S. > Repairs & Service
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 11-09-2018, 07:58 PM   #1
glendodom
Established Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Terry
Posts: 18
M.O.C. #22698
Water pump Issue with Winterizing

I have a 3-month-old Montana 3721RL and was trying to use the water pump to winterize but got issues. When I followed directions of draining the hot water heater, closing the water heater by-pass valve and moving the value to winterize with a hose connected to the Freeze Guard hose bib and into a gallon of antifreeze, I turned the pump on.

Initially the pump comes on and no antifreeze being sucked up. Finally after doing a couple on and offs, lifting the antifreeze to a higher level, it seemed to begin pulling some in. After about a gallon it stopped sucking. Now when I turn it on, the pump simply runs and isn't pulling up any antifreeze.

CW tech said that there was probably a valve behind the HW that was in an open position? Since I have it in by-pass mode, I didn't see where that would matter at this point but I pulled the panel and they aren't any valves behind the HW? The only value looking device I could ever find outside of he central control box was a valve up in under the BR cabinet. It looks like the main city water line comes in from the central control box and goes underbelly then back up to this cabinet to this value configuration and then back out and down into the belly. Attached is a picture of the value, even though it isn't an on/off type valve. Not sure what it is? Has anyone figured this one out?

I took the lines off the in and outlet at the pump and there was antifreeze there, plus I got antifreeze through all my faucets but the pump never pumped the lines up to pressure to cut off. Ultimately I never got antifreeze to the ice-maker which was my main intent.

Any suggestions, other than dragging it back to the dealer?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Montanna Valve.jpg (127.6 KB, 15 views)
glendodom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2018, 08:17 PM   #2
DQDick
Montana Master
 
DQDick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Wilsey
Posts: 15,404
M.O.C. #11455
The "valve" in the picture is the backflow preventer on the black tank flush that frequently causes issues, but not with winterizing.
__________________
Dick and Joyce, Wilsey, KS & Lakewood, NM
2017 3720 RL
2017 3500 Dodge Maxi Cab
IS and Disk Brakes, 3rd AC, Bathroom door mod, etc.
DQDick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2018, 08:19 PM   #3
browens62
Established Member
 
browens62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Haysville
Posts: 33
M.O.C. #21399
first year with our rv. Same problem. Not a 100% for sure, but i believe that it becomes air locked. i opened and closed the low point drain and it worked.

next year, i will be making a 5 gal water jug into a winterizing tanks.

ice box: just push the reset button until the water turns pink
Attached Images
File Type: jpg winterizing tank.JPG (17.7 KB, 195 views)
__________________
Brian and Tambra
Haysville
2018 - 3121RL
browens62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2018, 12:12 AM   #4
scottz
Montana Master
 
scottz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Mancos Colorado
Posts: 711
M.O.C. #19755
I had the same issue with mine; found it difficult to get the water pump to draw through through the winterizing port. Make sure you have a good seal at the hose attached to the winterizing port, keep the intake hose as short as possible and elevate the container of anti-freeze. Finally worked for me.
__________________
Scott, Alta & Kodiak
2017 Montana 3160RL, Legacy, Onan 5.5Kw, Solar
2014 Ford F350 6.7 PSD
scottz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2018, 08:03 AM   #5
Mudchief
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Paola
Posts: 5,460
M.O.C. #4961
Open the cold water low point valve until it starts to pump and then turn it off.
__________________
Dennis & Linda Ward
Paola, Kansas
Montana 3735MK Legacy Edition
1200 watts of Solar
Mudchief is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2018, 09:44 AM   #6
Md.FireFighter 3791RD
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: WESTMINSTER
Posts: 117
M.O.C. #20081
Send a message via AIM to Md.FireFighter 3791RD Send a message via MSN to Md.FireFighter 3791RD Send a message via Yahoo to Md.FireFighter 3791RD
In your winterizing intake were you suck antifreeze out of the gallon jug,there is a one way valve, take out the cone looking screen and flip it around and install it that way it pushes the valve open manually instead of the pump trying to suck it open, then hook hose to the inlet and should suck it up now faster. Had the same problem last year doing mine the first time winterizing camper . I talked to a service guy who winterizes and he said there are some valves that are to hard to suck open with the

pump. After your done flip the cone screen around for next season or the city water will shoot out of winterizing intake next time hooked to city water/campgroung water. Good luck.
Md.FireFighter 3791RD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2018, 11:26 AM   #7
glendodom
Established Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Terry
Posts: 18
M.O.C. #22698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Md.FireFighter 3791RD View Post
In your winterizing intake were you suck antifreeze out of the gallon jug,there is a one way valve, take out the cone looking screen and flip it around and install it that way it pushes the valve open manually instead of the pump trying to suck it open, then hook hose to the inlet and should suck it up now faster. Had the same problem last year doing mine the first time winterizing camper . I talked to a service guy who winterizes and he said there are some valves that are to hard to suck open with the

pump. After your done flip the cone screen around for next season or the city water will shoot out of winterizing intake next time hooked to city water/campgroung water. Good luck.
Thanks, I tried that and initially thought it resolved my problem. It started sucking but at a certain point seemed to lose its prime. I could crack the low port drain valve and let a combination of air/antifreeze out and it would again start pumping but soon after closing the drain port it would again seem to lose prime. After doing this numerous times all I was doing was recirculating antifreeze.

I have antifreeze at all faucets. My main issue is not being able to get the pump to stabilize with pressure and cut off whereas in time the icemaker would cycle and finally get anti-freeze through the icemaker. This is the way I understand the process should work?

It seems like the pump itself isn't sealing off with pressure to ultimately cut off? I guess I will end up taking it to the dealer.
glendodom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2018, 11:53 AM   #8
browens62
Established Member
 
browens62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Haysville
Posts: 33
M.O.C. #21399
glendodom

same issue, but was able to work thru it and the ice maker is winterized
__________________
Brian and Tambra
Haysville
2018 - 3121RL
browens62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2018, 11:56 AM   #9
scottz
Montana Master
 
scottz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Mancos Colorado
Posts: 711
M.O.C. #19755
The winterizing valve is what keeps the city water pressure from the winterizing port. I completely removed the check valve from my winterizing port; no issues.

I think my main problem getting the pump to prime from the winterizing port was a poor seal between the port and the hose going to the anti freeze jug. I need to work on this some more; I've had problems every time. I may install a winterizing kit like my last trailer had (no winterizing port); it has permanent connections to an intake line; never had a problem with it.

https://www.amazon.com/Camco-Permane...e+rv+kit&psc=1

Attached is a drawing of my convenience center plumbing; your plumbing may not be the same.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Convenience Center Plumbing.pdf (188.2 KB, 43 views)
__________________
Scott, Alta & Kodiak
2017 Montana 3160RL, Legacy, Onan 5.5Kw, Solar
2014 Ford F350 6.7 PSD
scottz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2018, 12:35 PM   #10
vacationer
Seasoned Camper
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: elmvale
Posts: 52
M.O.C. #22355
Ya same issue so next time going to lift it up higher. I used my own pump and forced it in
vacationer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2018, 03:03 PM   #11
glendodom
Established Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Terry
Posts: 18
M.O.C. #22698
Finally took it back into CW and they are now replacing the faulty water pump under warranty. It was the pressure switch but they are replacing the total water pump. I had finally got antifreeze pumped into all outlets to include the ice-maker but the pump simply keep running and would not pressure up and cut off.
glendodom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2018, 03:36 PM   #12
kozzy
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Brewerton
Posts: 366
M.O.C. #18144
i have the same issue, I took the one way valve out, and it worked fine. Next year ill try the backwards screen trick...
__________________
Ed
2016 Montana 3950 BR
2004 Montana 3650 RK
2016 Ram 3500 SRW Big Horn CTD 6.7 with AISIN
kozzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2018, 07:47 PM   #13
vipermanden
Montana Master
 
vipermanden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: North Lake Tahoe
Posts: 519
M.O.C. #18510
Sheesh, I wish I would have read this thread yesterday when we got home from our 9 week RV trip, and came back home to Tahoe where it was going to be in the 20's, so I hooked up two different hose setups to the winterizing intake only to have them leaking all over the place. Panicking, I thought now what can I do, and the wife DW comes over and says you have a sump pump in the garage, just put the antifreeze in a bucket, and push the antifreeze into the fill of the fresh tank, and use the water pump to winterize everything. Worked really well, but i had to use a few more gallons than normal doing it this way. The DW's are good for something every now and then.
__________________
2017 3820FK Legacy Edition full body paint Montana, For Sale this November, 2018. 2016 Ram 3500 long bed Dually Cummins Turbo with air bags
vipermanden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2018, 09:06 PM   #14
belldog
Established Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: ringgold
Posts: 43
M.O.C. #4165
Trouble winterize

I think there is a valve in winterize intake. I used a smaller hose inside of normal freshwater hose. The smaller hose presses on valve and allows antifreeze to be sucked into rv.
belldog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 12:30 AM   #15
Texan
Montana Master
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: new caney
Posts: 544
M.O.C. #19873
Quote:
Originally Posted by glendodom View Post
Finally took it back into CW and they are now replacing the faulty water pump under warranty. It was the pressure switch but they are replacing the total water pump. I had finally got antifreeze pumped into all outlets to include the ice-maker but the pump simply keep running and would not pressure up and cut off.
This would be a good time to change from the Flo-jet to the Shurflo water pump. Shurflo is much more quite and installs the same as the factory pump. You might want to inquire with CW about swapping pumps. Good luck.
Texan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 12:52 AM   #16
scottz
Montana Master
 
scottz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Mancos Colorado
Posts: 711
M.O.C. #19755
My OEM (Flowjet) water pump failed after 9 months because Keystone does not install strainers on the input and all the dirt/sawdust in the system destroyed the pump.

I replaced it with a Sureflow and strainer; I'm very happy with it; much quieter. Flojet also sent me a replacement under warranty, but I couldn't wait on it.
__________________
Scott, Alta & Kodiak
2017 Montana 3160RL, Legacy, Onan 5.5Kw, Solar
2014 Ford F350 6.7 PSD
scottz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 10:53 AM   #17
Renegade1LI
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Islip Terrace
Posts: 161
M.O.C. #22165
Quote:
Originally Posted by vipermanden View Post
Sheesh, I wish I would have read this thread yesterday when we got home from our 9 week RV trip, and came back home to Tahoe where it was going to be in the 20's, so I hooked up two different hose setups to the winterizing intake only to have them leaking all over the place. Panicking, I thought now what can I do, and the wife DW comes over and says you have a sump pump in the garage, just put the antifreeze in a bucket, and push the antifreeze into the fill of the fresh tank, and use the water pump to winterize everything. Worked really well, but i had to use a few more gallons than normal doing it this way. The DW's are good for something every now and then.
I basically do it that way all the time, I put a few gals into a 5 gal bucket & pump through the winterize port. Using a small submersible that put out about 20 psi feeds the pump & overcomes the check valve & I get antifreeze to everything. I've been doing it this way for years & never an issue. A couple campers I put a hose adapter on the bypass & then toggle the valve to back feed into the tank. One camper had a gravity fill so I just pour a few gals into the tank & use the pump. It also works out running antifreeze through the pool cover pump.
Renegade1LI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 11:03 AM   #18
jetskier
Established Member
 
jetskier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Minden
Posts: 40
M.O.C. #22360
I had a similar issues with priming. I simply doubled up the hose rubber washer at the winterizing port and that solved the problem.
__________________
2013 F350 Lariat Ultimate FX4 CC LB SRW
2019 3790RD 20th Anniversary Edition, 265W solar panel w/ 30A MPPT controller, 2000W Inverter, 5500W Onan, Slide Awnings, four GC2 batteries, 3rd AC.
jetskier is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Montana RV, Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.