Go Back   Montana Owners Club - Keystone Montana 5th Wheel Forum > GENERAL DISCUSSIONS > Tow Vehicles & Towing
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 05-16-2009, 10:33 AM   #21
TLightning
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Kville
Posts: 2,692
M.O.C. #7871
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by richfaa

Seems like there is a little more to it than.."the only difference is a spring"

That 'statement' has gotten started on the internet and is now passed along as fact. If you look at the bios of the posters (especially on RVNet) they are trying to justify using over weight trucks.
TLightning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2009, 01:46 PM   #22
KathyandDave
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Shelburne
Posts: 688
M.O.C. #8693
Send a message via MSN to KathyandDave
Aside from stability, are the duallies only needed to get enough tire rating for the full RAWR? The weight of the extra wheels/tires shouldn't factor into the carrying capacity, just increase the weight of the truck?
KathyandDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2009, 02:23 PM   #23
richfaa
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 19,180
M.O.C. #2839
Tom Said... "That 'statement' has gotten started on the internet and is now passed along as fact. If you look at the bios of the posters (especially on RVNet) they are trying to justify using over weight trucks." I would never have thunk that??
richfaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2009, 05:22 PM   #24
SlickWillie
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location:
Posts: 2,376
M.O.C. #6575
It amazes me that you guys worry about someone overloading their truck. Like I said once before, I believe there is jealously, or perhaps, maybe some envy involved. Does it eat at you that you purchased a 1 ton, and a guy can beef a 3/4 ton up and carry what you can?

BTW, if you'll take the time to do the research, you may learn that the spring pack and tires/wheels are the only difference in the 3/4 ton and the 1 ton SRW. But no, you'd rather whine about someone overloading their 3/4 ton.
SlickWillie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2009, 11:17 PM   #25
Art-n-Marge
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Murrieta
Posts: 5,816
M.O.C. #9257
Send a message via MSN to Art-n-Marge Send a message via Yahoo to Art-n-Marge
Oh boy, more factors. It turns out there are two other possibilities on the difference between an F-250 and an F-350 and this is almost a visual inspection. I was talking to a rep at a leaf spring factory and he said the leaf springs between an F-250 and F-250 can be interchangeable and that the dually leafsprings are different between SRW. This person also said the difference for the SRW springs are that the F-350 can add a "block". This is a spacer that sits between the springs and the frame that can add some height difference and in doing so increase the load bearing capability because it prevents the sag that would make the load dangerous. He also said that an additional leaf installed on an F350 that "kicks in" when the load increases at some point and increases the load as well. It seems some of you in reporting the number of springs in you truck might have that in your F-350.

So I have several options I need to check out - new thicker leaf springs (which would give me 2800 extra lbs which is overkill, I don't want more load than an F-350 and this raises the rear of the truck over an inch), a thicker block (I have no idea what size and where to get something like that) or an additional leaf spring (don't know this one either, but I think these are avaialable for sale. Maybe I can check on these new factors at the dealer.
Art-n-Marge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2009, 03:29 AM   #26
ARJ
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location:
Posts: 608
M.O.C. #6162
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Art-n-Marge

Oh boy, more factors. It turns out there are two other possibilities on the difference between an F-250 and an F-350 and this is almost a visual inspection. I was talking to a rep at a leaf spring factory and he said the leaf springs between an F-250 and F-250 can be interchangeable and that the dually leafsprings are different between SRW. This person also said the difference for the SRW springs are that the F-350 can add a "block". This is a spacer that sits between the springs and the frame that can add some height difference and in doing so increase the load bearing capability because it prevents the sag that would make the load dangerous. He also said that an additional leaf installed on an F350 that "kicks in" when the load increases at some point and increases the load as well. It seems some of you in reporting the number of springs in you truck might have that in your F-350.

So I have several options I need to check out - new thicker leaf springs (which would give me 2800 extra lbs which is overkill, I don't want more load than an F-350 and this raises the rear of the truck over an inch), a thicker block (I have no idea what size and where to get something like that) or an additional leaf spring (don't know this one either, but I think these are avaialable for sale. Maybe I can check on these new factors at the dealer.
It may be worth it to take the truck to a place that specializes in spring work for an opinion. You should also consider what the truck will ride like with an enhanced spring pack when it is unloaded (a rock ?}
ARJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2009, 05:14 AM   #27
kdeiss
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Englewood
Posts: 3,075
M.O.C. #164
Keep in mind a few years back GM came out with 2500HD and Ford F250 Super Duty that is when they both started share componets with the one ton's
To the best of my knowledge GM still makes a 2500 3/4
So my point is as you discuss you should be referring to HD or Super Duty not just 3/4

It is my understanding that the differance in a GM 2500HD and a 3500 is Springs,Wheels and tires
kdeiss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2009, 05:17 AM   #28
SlickWillie
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location:
Posts: 2,376
M.O.C. #6575
Art, check this site: http://mrtruck.net/springs.htm I believe anything that gives you extra level load capacity, be it an air bag or spring, will do what you want. If you can add another 1000 pounds in the bed, and the truck sets level, you have solved the problem. BTW, that site is in CA, which I'm not familiar with at all, and may or may not be close to you.
SlickWillie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2009, 06:03 AM   #29
richfaa
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 19,180
M.O.C. #2839
This gets funnier and funnier with nearly every post.."you may learn that the spring pack and tires/wheels are the only difference in the 3/4 ton and the 1 ton SRW." Does it eat at you that you purchased a 1 ton, and a guy can beef a 3/4 ton up and carry what you can?" .. Don't need to beef up the 3/4. Why spend all that money and labor cost when purchasing a 1 ton in the first place, does the same thing. Same truck Ford 1 ton 51,640, Ford 3/4 ton 50,990//difference of 650.00. Can all those upgrades be done for less than 650.00.. The difference is why they build both trucks..

"you may learn that the spring pack and tires/wheels are the only difference in the 3/4 ton and the 1 ton SRW." Don't need to learn that// Always knew that...THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE.. That difference is why we have the 1 ton dually..because we needed it/////
richfaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2009, 06:18 AM   #30
SlickWillie
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location:
Posts: 2,376
M.O.C. #6575
I see nothing funny about it. The guy has a fairly new truck he wants to increase the payload capacity on. I keep seeing these not so subtle comments from one ton owners. Somehow, I fail to see the humor in it. I don't want springs, don't need springs, and ain't gonna get springs, but if he wants them, more power to him.

I did increase tire size, which helps with capacity, but I did it merely as a cosmetic thing. I don't like the looks of the GMCs and Chevys with the LT245-75R16 tires. Just my preference.
SlickWillie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2009, 08:37 AM   #31
richfaa
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 19,180
M.O.C. #2839
Will. Of course not...If you don't need them don't get them. It is also a myth that you need a 1 ton to pull any 5th wheel or a 5th wheel over 10K. Many 3/4 ton trucks are within all ratings and spec's for the camper they are pulling. One should get the truck that falls within the ratings and spec's of the camper they are pulling or thinking of pulling. The numbers are there and a little bit of homework will provide the education needed to make the proper choice. The final choice is always the users but at least make the choice based on understanding. As this thread reveals it is a complex issue and this guy is going to a lot time and trouble to get all the proper facts before he makes the choice.

It was SOME folks on this forum that suggested that we do the homework on ratings a spec's when purchasng a truck to pull our 3400. We did.. The numbers told us what truck we needed. Simple as that. We do not have to worry about upgrading. We purchaed what we needed.

richfaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2009, 09:10 AM   #32
c5racer
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Hurricane
Posts: 503
M.O.C. #444
Why not go the easy route, just change the emblem to a 1 ton?
c5racer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2009, 09:24 AM   #33
SlickWillie
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location:
Posts: 2,376
M.O.C. #6575
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by c5racer

Why not go the easy route, just change the emblem to a 1 ton?
Another one huh?
SlickWillie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2009, 09:42 AM   #34
TLightning
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Kville
Posts: 2,692
M.O.C. #7871
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by SlickWillie

It amazes me that you guys worry about someone overloading their truck. Like I said once before, I believe there is jealously, or perhaps, maybe some envy involved. Does it eat at you that you purchased a 1 ton, and a guy can beef a 3/4 ton up and carry what you can?

BTW, if you'll take the time to do the research, you may learn that the spring pack and tires/wheels are the only difference in the 3/4 ton and the 1 ton SRW. But no, you'd rather whine about someone overloading their 3/4 ton.
Your post makes no sense...I should be jealous because my truck is fully capable of hauling my Montana and remaining within the factory numbers?? You can 'beef' a 3/4 all you want...it's still a 3/4.

And more of the myth that 3/4s and one tons are really the same.

There was an interesting post on here a while back (that you got locked due to your comments) from a lawyer. Anybody interested in the legal ramifications of towing over weight should read it.
TLightning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2009, 09:51 AM   #35
richfaa
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 19,180
M.O.C. #2839
Truce, truce.. Let the guy decide for himself. He is doing just fine.
richfaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2009, 10:01 AM   #36
SlickWillie
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location:
Posts: 2,376
M.O.C. #6575
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by richfaa

Truce, truce.. Let the guy decide for himself. He is doing just fine.
That is all I ask.

BTW Tom, you might want to refresh your memory. http://www.montanaowners.com/forums/...ad.php?t=33535 I don't think I was totally responsible for that thread closing. And oh, that lawyer post; it was found somewhere on the internet. Surely you take those type posts with a grain of salt don't you? It's always the friend of a friend's brother's uncle or such.
SlickWillie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2009, 10:06 AM   #37
Art-n-Marge
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Murrieta
Posts: 5,816
M.O.C. #9257
Send a message via MSN to Art-n-Marge Send a message via Yahoo to Art-n-Marge
I created this Forum topic to analyze my plans for increasing the GVWR for my truck about 1500 lbs and narrowed it down to leaf springs.

While there is discussion that the best thing would have been to buy a 1 ton over the 3/4 ton and not worry about it, I absolutely agree that should have been the right choice to do. I have seen that now the price differences between the F-250 & F-350 are about an average of $650 for a comparably equipped truck and not worth the anguish. But at the time I made my purchase there were factors on that day that altered this logic because from what you'll read it became a significant financial solution.

At the time that when I was buying my new truck because my old truck I was trading in had a fifth wheel tow rating of about 13,000 lbs (under the GVWR of my newly ordered Montana of over 14,000lbs) and the newer F-250/F-350 had 15,200 lb ratings. I traded in my two year old F-250 and found I was eligible for a $1,500 factory rebate if I stayed with the SAME model. I would not have gotten the rebate if I upgraded to an F350. The dealership I bought from was having an anniversary sale for their dealership that month and was matching eligible rebates so they matched it for an additional $1,500 if I stayed with the F-250. Finally, the day I was buying the new truck was the day after their actual anniversary day when they had offered an additional $1,000 for any purchases on that day. When the Salesman found out that I had bought my trade-in at that dealership over two years ago he was able to convince the Sales Manager to give me that rebate, too (I probably would've got this on an F-350, but the salesman only checked on where I bought it when he found I was eligible for so many of their rebates). When I figured out both model trucks had the exact tow ratings, with the F-350 only having better cargo carrying capacity by 1000 to 1500 lbs, I stayed with the F-250 and saved $4,000 in addition to the approximate $700 difference between models.

The bad news is that the advertised pin weight of 1,500 lbs for my Monty was easily met by the F250, BUT, the actually weight of my truck and the actual weight of the trailer after loading up the bedroom and garage for a trip came out to an extra 2,500. Over by a few hundred lbs.

Now, I do not carry as much as I used to when I am towing and moved much of the items in the trailer garage to the trailer center over the wheels to lighten the pin weight. So while I saved A LOT of money for the truck, now I am willing to spend a little bit of it to install the equipment I would have if I had purchased an F-350 and give me the margin I want.

Nowhere have I implied I am okay with exceeding my truck's GVWR or plan to compromise anything willingly. I appreciate Slickwillie's support of my desire to buy what I want (need).

RV on!
Art-n-Marge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2009, 10:54 AM   #38
2 Sinks
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Jax.
Posts: 129
M.O.C. #6341

My 2006 Dodge QC 4x4 1 ton dual rear wheel has a totally different spring package than the 3/4 ton Dodge QC 4x4.The 1 ton drw has a 6 spring pack consisting of 4 main leaf's and 2 upper overload leaf's which have contact pads to activate all four.Two on each side when the load is exerting downward force on the truck.This is the same setup a 1 ton Dodge srw has with the possible exception the srw "may only" have 1 overload leaf,not 100% sure on the srw spring count.The srw does have the contact pads to activate the overloads as I mentioned above.

That being said my prior swb Dodge 3/4 ton QC had a 5 spring pack with no overloads thus no overload activation pads.I did add the aftermarket load leveling springs to my 06 Dodge when I used it to pull the trailer.In my particular case I needed more truck for weight handling/distribution purposes.Notice I'm referring to QC trucks only.

As Rich said a 1 ton dually is not required to pull all fifth wheel trailers.Many 3/4 ton trucks are well within spec according to pin weight and payload capacity.We all know pin weight and payload/cargo capacities determine what size/capacity truck (swb/lwb/srw/drw/2 door/4/door) the individual should choose for the job at hand.

As far as stability goes in my opinion the lwb drw wins hands down.The weight is distributed more evenly over a larger platform.The drw rear differential is wider than the srw differential due to longer spindles/hubs to support the dual rear wheels.I've had several apart and there is no mistaking the longer spindle/hub used on the drw differential.Also if you pull your front wheels off you'll notice hub extensions for extra weight distribution to the outside rather than inside as on the srw.This extension is also used to accomadate the wheel offset of the dual type wheel application.

So there you have it different spring count applications for different frame configurations for different weight capacities which are all over the chart.

These are my thoughts and opinions on this matter.They are not intended to start a battle over which truck is better than the other or who has the absolute best truck for the application.Know your weights,do your homework,ask questions and make the right choice.








2 Sinks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2009, 03:00 PM   #39
richfaa
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 19,180
M.O.C. #2839
This has been a very educational thread for all....I hope. I do agree Art that if you want to increase payload capacity on the present truck it would be cost effective to do a spring ungrade.

I learned something today..it was a good day

2sinks said "As far as stability goes in my opinion the lwb drw wins hands down.The weight is distributed more evenly over a larger platform.The drw rear differential is wider than the srw differential due to longer spindles/hubs to support the dual rear wheels.I've had several apart and there is no mistaking the longer spindle/hub used on the drw differential.Also if you pull your front wheels off you'll notice hub extensions for extra weight distribution to the outside rather than inside as on the srw.This extension is also used to accomadate the wheel offset of the dual type wheel application"
richfaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2009, 06:28 PM   #40
Desert RVer
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Gilbert
Posts: 261
M.O.C. #9307
It would seem to me that adding addititional weight carrying capacity to a F250 would increase towing safety even though it doesn't change the GVWR on the door sticker. Isn't safety the real bottom line issue here?
Desert RVer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Come on Spring sambam Sitting around the Campfire 3 02-28-2015 08:00 PM
For next Spring! Rondo Sitting around the Campfire 10 10-09-2011 09:15 AM
Now that spring is here..... kdeiss General Discussions about our Montanas 32 03-19-2006 08:31 AM
spring is in the air sgf General Discussions about our Montanas 0 03-02-2004 11:57 AM
Spring is Here!! Joyce H Sitting around the Campfire 0 03-01-2004 02:07 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Montana RV, Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.