SURGE PROTECTORS - Montana Owners Club

Larry-P · 07-12-2011, 12:39 PM

I don't quite understand this subject so don't be cruel with your answers.
I have a 2011 Montana 3455SA which I will be picking up from the dealer soon. The coach is set for 50amp service & I understand that it will work with 30amp service.

So my questions are -

1)Do I need to purchase both a 50amp & 30amp surge protectors or will the 50 amp be fine for both 50amp & 30amp service ??

2) How does coach electronics know the difference in amp service ??

3) What do I lose when hooked up to 30amp service ??

3) Will I need an adapter plug to fit on the end of my 50amp plug for connection to the 30amp service box ??

Thanks in advance for all serious & helpful answers.

TLightning · 07-12-2011, 01:26 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Larry-P

I don't quite understand this subject so don't be cruel with your answers.
I have a 2011 Montana 3455SA which I will be picking up from the dealer soon. The coach is set for 50amp service & I understand that it will work with 30amp service.

So my questions are -

1)Do I need to purchase both a 50amp & 30amp surge protectors or will the 50 amp be fine for both 50amp & 30amp service ??

Most 50 amp SGs will also handle 30 amp...some will handle it, but it's not recommended...do your research.

2) How does coach electronics know the difference in amp service ??

Don't know, don't care, all I know is that it does and it works.

3) What do I lose when hooked up to 30amp service ??

You won't "lose" anything, you just won't be able to run all your electrical goodies...such as both ACs at the same time.

3) Will I need an adapter plug to fit on the end of my 50amp plug for connection to the 30amp service box ??

Yes, available at any RV store...and some Wal Marts.

Thanks in advance for all serious & helpful answers.

snfexpress · 07-12-2011, 02:38 PM

Surge guards, regardless of the manufacturer, are made for RV's, either external, meaning they are plugged in at the pedestal, or internal, meaning they are wired in before the panel, are meant for two legs of 110 volts, not 240 volts. That means that when you are connected to 50 amps, you have 50 amps to each leg of your RV. When you connect to 30 amps, with a 30 amp female to 50 amp male adapter or dogbone, you will get a combined 30 amps to both legs.

The long and the short of it is that you do not need to buy two different surge guards.

No question on this forum about how to use our RV's is stupid and I doubt that you would ever get a cruel answer on this forum.

oldelmer1 · 07-12-2011, 02:59 PM

Larry-P, welcome to the forum....

If you search for surge protectors you will find lots of reading. I just bought one of these the other day:http://tweetys.com/electricalmanagem...able50amp.aspx

Its the one that connects to the power post and has a metal clip on it to lock it to the post.

If you go to here, http://www.progressiveindustries.net/catalog.htm

and look at PRODUCTS,RV POWER PROTECTION, you will see all the EMS's that are available. You probably want the 50AMP unit, I believe you can also connect it to a 30AMP power post(using the correct adaptor). Some folks say built in is best, no worries about it being stolen, others say the prefer it outside in case it takes a hit and burns up. I decided on the outside one cause then I don't have to cut the wiring and install it inside, just plug it into the power post, I have a chain I can put around the post to lock the unit to the post.

Phil P · 07-12-2011, 03:12 PM

Hi

Here is a link t the instlation instructions for the surge protection Ozz has in his unit.

Read the entir document you will find it interesting.

http://www.intermatic.com/~/media/fi...20english.ashx

Phil P

bncinwv · 07-12-2011, 03:54 PM

A 50 amp protector will protect down to 15 amps on most surge protectors, the owners manual (usually available on-line for research) will tell specifically if they protect down to 15 amps. The coach electronics does not know the difference, in the feeds, the breaker box does and it will tell you when the breakers start doing their job when you try to overload the 30 amp feed. An on-line search will yield the typical amperage draws for different rv equipment, a little addition and subtraction will tell you the combinations that you are typically limited to. You will need an adapter for 50 to 30 amp. You can also get a 30 amp to 20 amp adapter that will enable you to plug your rig into a normal receptacle at the stick house if you desire to do so. Understanding is usually gained from two sources, others and mistakes. You made the correct choice seeking understanding from others.
Bingo

Larry-P · 07-13-2011, 03:37 AM

Thanks to everyone for the help.
Sometimes one is hestitant to ask questions. But I can see here that asking is not a problem.

Thanks again for all of the help.

sgtpp214 · 07-13-2011, 01:06 PM

Larry P. Just remember the only dumb or stupid question is the unasked one. You will find the MOC crew are a wealth of info and the friendliest people around. Tell you dealer you expect to get a 30A to 50A adapter for being a good customer. I got one with my Monty from the dealer without even asking.

hunts800 · 07-13-2011, 01:42 PM

I have been trailering for years, but only moved to a 50 amp Montana fifth wheel in May. On our maiden voyage, in Gold Beach, OR, the park had a "floating ground" problem (whatever the hell that is)! It took out my microwave, fireplace, and direct tv box, as well as a 110v lamp.

Having learned the "hard way" , I now have a 50 amp surge protector (the portable type). Although pricey, I was able to beat Camping Worlds price considerably by shopping on-line. And , as everyone says, you can step down to 30 amp with the same surge protector without any difficulty. I am much more comfortable now. I am fairly handy, but electricity has always been something I left to the professionals, and I still don't understand the 50 amp leg having two 110 circuits with a ground vis-a-vis the single 110 leg, common, and ground with the 30 amp, but I have decided trying to understand this difference is not worth the effort!

Larry-P · 07-14-2011, 07:52 AM

hUNTS800
Could I ask what brand & model SP did you get ??

Phil P · 07-14-2011, 08:43 AM

Hi Hunts800

The term “floating” when used in reference to an electrical connection means “disconnected”.

A floating or disconnected ground commonly doesn’t present a problem like you describe. However a floating or disconnected neutral will cause severe problems in a stick house or 50 Amp RV.

In some areas of the US it is allowed to combine the neutral and ground. Under this condition a floating ground would also result in a floating natural and then you have a serious problem.

The cord that connects your RV to the 50 Amp service has 4 wires in it. One ground wire, one neutral wire and two power wires.

The two 110/120 volt lines in the 50 am service are 110/120 to the neutral line and 220/240 between the two 110/120 volt lines.

When the neutral becomes disconnected then when you have two appliances on each of the 110/120 volt lines they are actually connected to each other thru the neutral inside your electrical box so that the power flows between the two 110/120 volt lines. As long as the load is equal like two 100 w light bulbs there is not any apparent damage. But when the load is unequal like a 100 w light bulb on one side and the toaster on the other the 100 w light bulb will burn real bright for a short period of time. This is the result of the high draw item (the toaster) working as a conductor and the result is high voltage thru the light bulb.

In your case I would guess this is what caused the damage to your appliances.

Two weeks ago I had an open natural at the stick house. My wife tried to use the toaster in the kitchen and the bathroom lights got real bright. Fortunately I realize what was wrong and pulled the main disconnect to the house. We didn’t get any damage. I had to have the power company come out and disconnect me from the grid so I could repair a broken neutral wire behind the meter.

Phil P

PSFORD99 · 07-14-2011, 12:54 PM

I have the Progressive 50 amp Model SSP50 cost around 100.00, protects against a surge, but does not protect against low voltage which can also do damage. Progressive Model EMS-PT50c does both, but the cost is more around 350.00. Just depends on how much protection you want, and how much money you want to spend.

hunts800 · 07-14-2011, 01:09 PM

I purchased the TRC Surge Guard, Model 34750, plus lock - Camping world wanted $379 for the surge protector, got both on-line at Dyers RV for around $303, with free shipping. So far, two trips with protector and no problems at all. Of course, I had trailered for years with no problem until moving to the 50 amp fifth wheel, so just feel better with the "insurance" of eliminating one more thing which can (and usually does) go wrong!

TLightning · 07-14-2011, 01:57 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by hunts800

I purchased the TRC Surge Guard, Model 34750, plus lock - Camping world wanted $379 for the surge protector, got both on-line at Dyers RV for around $303, with free shipping. So far, two trips with protector and no problems at all. Of course, I had trailered for years with no problem until moving to the 50 amp fifth wheel, so just feel better with the "insurance" of eliminating one more thing which can (and usually does) go wrong!

I have the same 34750, paid $270 here: https://www.rvpartsoutlet.com/newstore/nojava/index.cfm

richfaa · 07-14-2011, 02:49 PM

Our PI PT 50C would not allow power to the Montana at a C.G over the 4th of July weekend as leg 1 was at 101 volts.we hooked up to 30amps but I left the 50C connected to the 540 amp outlet at the power pole. I noted that the leg 1 voltage dropped as low as 93 volts and leg two 101 volts. That would have been disastrous had we not had the PT 50C and plugged into The 50 amp outlet. 30 amp was not much better as the Montana went off line several times during the week end.

mhs4771 · 07-14-2011, 03:13 PM

I think we're finding that many of the Campground's power is not up to date to power all the newer/bigger rigs with 50 amp systems. We were at a CC in New Hampshire recently and power was quite low, and we were the only ones there (weekend before their official opening), hate to think what it must have been over the 4th.

richfaa · 07-15-2011, 04:11 AM

IMO a good device like the PI PT 50C although expensive is a must have. Consider the cost of ruined appliances vs the cost of a good protection device. The C.G we mention was a older C.G in a rural area. The C.G has upgraded its power system but the incoming service was not adequate and the rural utility would not upgrade except at a large expense to the C.G owner.We noted that most of the permanents had Pt 50 type units and auto formers.

power problems are not as common as they were years ago and most C.G have had to upgrade to survive. we have used the PT 50 since day one over 5 years ago and we get around. It has denied power to the Montana perhaps 20 times in that time mostly open ground or low voltage on one of the 50 amp legs.
We hook the 50c to the pedestal before we hook the Montana to it and let the 50C check out the pedestal before we start to set up.

There is no doubt it has saved us a lot of money.

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