Unlucky Lippert owner? - Page 2 - Montana Owners Club

RCN.Stoker · 08-25-2010, 09:44 AM

As those who read posts often I dropped mine several weeks ago. There was only minimal cosmetic damage to the trailer. The molding where the cap joins the bottom sheeting was dented leaving one of the screws pround. There is no indication of underlying damage to the frame. Notwithstanding this I am now nervous enough to get a thorough inspection done of the welding on the front frame particularly around the pin box. The pin never contacted the TV box when the trailer dropped except to bend the tailgate out and put gouges in the tailgate box liner. I can't see how there would be enough force to cause welds to separate unless they were deficient in the first place. The weld must be subjected to equally heavy compression and tension stresses when towing, braking etc. I hate to say it but I am second guessing my purchase decision. My DW wanted and cosy cottage not a liability on wheels.

blarkman · 08-25-2010, 10:59 AM

If dropping theCougar on the truck caused thehitch to crack I think WE have a bigger problem INHO

richfaa · 08-25-2010, 11:24 AM

I am no expert in the physics of it but dropping a camper with a pin weigh of maybe a ton more or less 6 or 8 inches would exert a lot of force and we don't know how far or how hard it dropped. We have also seen rust form on unprotected metal in a few days and the picture can not show the true nature of the rust. I hope they do not look to close.

richfaa · 08-25-2010, 01:52 PM

I never said caused...I said may have contributed to. I thought the camper was dropped followed a short time later by a total failure of the pin box no connection?????? at all????

mike and kellie · 08-25-2010, 02:02 PM

It was mentioned in the other forum that his king pin actually caught his tailgate and formed a severe bow that he was able to stomp out. To me that would be the "cushionest" drop if you had to experience this along with some damage to the truck's bed rails. There should not be any relationship to his unhitched accident and this welding failure. I have not done it (fingers crossed) but the impact of a king pin hitting a bed saver would be more severe than his "tailgate" incident. Has anybody wondered about internal/unseen damage after they were "saved"? You just have to feel bad for this guy...I was right about the sand, gravel and hail. The rv nightmare tri-fecta.

richfaa · 08-25-2010, 04:16 PM

There should be a smooth drop into the bedsaver IF it is installed correctly. Take a look at the video on the bedsaver site. There is very little drop. I have to raise, as the video indicated, the pin over the bedsaver to hitch. My drop is maybe 1/4 of a inch. Many of the installations we see are not correct. The true force of a 5th wheel drop can be seen in the V damage to the bed in trucks that have dropped the camper. If a 6 or 8 inch drop can cause that kind of damage there is a lot of force exerted.

I guess I was thinking in those terms. This guy was very lucky that the 5th wheel could travel from the hitch to the tailgate without hitting anything else and that the tailgate stopped it.

I should have never taken those Physics classes.

Glass Guy · 08-25-2010, 04:29 PM

If he did drop the cougar the pin box would not have hit anything the front cap and side rails would have taken all of the weight. Give it a rest Rich, just another example of how poorly these things are really made. Think about it if that tailgate was strong enough to break them welds he has one h-ll of a tailgate.

SlickWillie · 08-25-2010, 06:57 PM

Give it up Rich, it's those crappy welds that caused the failure. We know you like to defend the manufacturers, but in this case, they failed miserably.

HamRad · 08-26-2010, 03:06 AM

I'm not much of a welder but have been around a lot of welders for a long time. Many of the welds I've seen on my Montana rig are really bad. And photos of others rigs show welds that are terrible examples of what a good weld should be.

I suspect that Lippert delivers a bunch of frames to Keystone and Keystone takes a quick look at them and unless there is something actually obviously broken they simply sign off on them and start manufacturing trailers. I cannot see them looking at each and every frame with a fine tooth comb. No. That is our job when the thing starts falling apart as we drive down the road! Funny and NOT so funny when it happens to you.

Somewhere in the process there really ought to be a true quality assessment of the frames. And it should NOT be us, the end user, who discovers a problem.
Dennis

SlickWillie · 08-26-2010, 03:14 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by HamRad

I'm not much of a welder but have been around a lot of welders for a long time. Many of the welds I've seen on my Montana rig are really bad. And photos of others rigs show welds that are terrible examples of what a good weld should be.

I suspect that Lippert delivers a bunch of frames to Keystone and Keystone takes a quick look at them and unless there is something actually obviously broken they simply sign off on them and start manufacturing trailers. I cannot see them looking at each and every frame with a fine tooth comb. No. That is our job when the thing starts falling apart as we drive down the road! Funny and NOT so funny when it happens to you.

Somewhere in the process there really ought to be a true quality assessment of the frames. And it should NOT be us, the end user, who discovers a problem.
Dennis

Good post Dennis. I'm like you, I can weld, but I don't consider myself a welder. I even had formal training many years ago. I've worked with some super welders in the power plant business. The folks that welded on our fiver frame don't qualify as welders in my book. Seems we called them "dobbers" where I come from.

richfaa · 08-26-2010, 03:57 AM

The posters description of the drop clarifies that it had nothing to do with the failure and Lippert itself said it was a poor weld. He is being taken care of. No I do not care for manufacturer bashing as it helps nothing and most of it comes from folks who have no idea what they are talking about.

blarkman · 08-26-2010, 04:27 AM

Well in my opinion someone had to certify the welder and someone had to certify that the welds were up to the standards for the frame and the inspectors at the assambly plant dropped the ballon and on it goes. So now you want to blame the guy who bought the rig!!! Come on.

mopar1 · 08-26-2010, 05:34 AM

Part 2 has been posted:
http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fu...d/24324270.cfm

CamillaMichael · 08-26-2010, 06:07 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by blarkman

Well in my opinion someone had to certify the welder and someone had to certify that the welds were up to the standards for the frame and the inspectors at the assambly plant dropped the ballon and on it goes. So now you want to blame the guy who bought the rig!!! Come on.

From some of the posts you read online, you are left to believe there is no quality control in the RV industry...so, no certification, no inspections, no quality. Can't believe that. I do see some issues (some serious) that should have been spotted during manufacture, but I also see a lot of nice (well functioning) units on the road and at camp grounds everywhere we go. It's a good thing to hold manufacturers accountable, but counterproductive to slam them everytime an issue comes up...on the other hand, there wouldn't be things like Good Sam's "Action Line" if there were no issues the manufacturer attempts to "blow off." Since there is obviously a mix of the good and the bad, I, for one, am happy there are places like the MOC forum to keep informed of what is going on in the RV industry.

richfaa · 08-26-2010, 06:21 AM

"So now you want to blame the guy who bought the rig!!! Come on." Who said that?????

I do not know how or if Lippert certifies their welders. I do not know If anyone at the assembly plant inspection or certifies the frames or welds. If I don't know I can't comment.Now we have been to the Lippert plant and we have seen that operation. We have seen the frames as they come in the door at the Montana plant and we have asked some questions so we do know some things because we asked the question of the folks who should know..Since we will tour the plant at the fall rally we will ask IF the frames or welds are inspected when they arrive at the plant. I encourgae others who take the tour to do the same. Don't know if we will do the Lippert tour but if anyone does..ask the question.. Jason Lippert is always at the rally.. ask the question..then we will know and will not have to assume anything.

blarkman · 08-26-2010, 07:08 AM

When lives are involved should there be minimum standards or do we just let it slide.

richfaa · 08-26-2010, 08:13 AM

"When lives are involved should there be minimum standards or do we just let it slide." ..I agree but I do not know if there are minimum standards or what they are. The way to find out is to...ask the question. I am betting there are standards and It would be foolish for a manufacturer to ignore them. So..If we are really concerned lets find out...

SlickWillie · 08-27-2010, 01:25 AM

Ask questions? Surely you realize the answer you get is just gonna be tailored to what they think you want to hear. Let's see, we just had the thread concerning the yellow spots on the ceiling. The answer given was total BS. The way to improve quality is shop somewhere else; the message will get there then.

mopar1 · 08-27-2010, 03:15 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by SlickWillie

Ask questions? Surely you realize the answer you get is just gonna be tailored to what they think you want to hear. Let's see, we just had the thread concerning the yellow spots on the ceiling. The answer given was total BS. The way to improve quality is shop somewhere else; the message will get there then.

But who are you going to buy from? Most everybody uses Lippert frames. No manufacturer of RV's seems to have it together. I thought maybe Mobile Suites because they were high priced luxury units till I went on there website and heard people complain about the same topics we do. They just paid more,
Nothing will change until some manufacturer steps up and makes campers with quality as a top priority. It's the same thing with the way the big 3 automakers used to be. They did not care about quality. That was provided at the dealerships...maybe. It wasn't till the Japanese started to sell high quality cars cheep. Then it was do or die. Same will hold true for the RV industry.

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