How much weight is on the truck?

[jmi]

Brand new owner of 2010 Montana 3665RE 5th Wheel. Trying to determine how much weight is actually placed on the tow vehicle in a properly balanced configuration. How is this determined?

Anyone weighed their Monty with and without the truck attached?

We will not full-time in the near future so want to select a truck with a decent ride. How big a difference in ride between a 3/4 and 1 Ton without the rig attached?

Thanks for your info ... Jeff

[NCFischers]

We have a 2009 3665RE. Fully loaded, my pin weight is a little over 2900#. I weighed the truck with a full tank of fuel then I went accross a Cat scale in a truck stop with the trailer, all fully loaded. The scale weighted the front truck axle, the rear truck axle and the trailer axles. Then I did the math. My dually rides comfortably without the trailer. It's a stiffer ride over bumps but that is to be expected. I'm very happy with the 1 ton dually and would not want to pull with anything less. You need to get a truck you will be comfortable with. We all pull with a variety of TV's. It's a personal choice.

[Bill-N-Donna]

When I took our camper to a set of scales to get the weights; I weighed the camper and the truck together. After that I disconnected it and parked it with the trucks and weighed the tow vehicle. This gave me the most accurate pin weight this way. The scale I used had three points that showed the weight. Front axle, back axle and then the trailer axles together. After weighing both its easy to figure out the pin weight. For the most accuracy I weighed them the same day one after the other.

[RidgecrestDad]

Jeff,

A quick approximation for your weight (before loading it up) can be found on the Keystone website at http://keystone-montana.com/index.ph...pecs&year=2010. The specs for your monty show 2045 for a hitch weight. To be more accurate in order to not overload your TV you will want to do the weight and calculations as noted above.

Here is another link that will help you understand all the terms and since you are looking for help in sizing the TV it may assist there as well http://changingears.com/rv-sec-tow-vehicle-sizing.shtml . Suggest you read more of the forums as type engine (diesel vs gas), among other considerations, should also be a consideration. Have fun.

[CamillaMichael]

The fact is "3/4" ton and "1" ton designations have little to do with today's heavy duty trucks. Those designations were intended to designate how much weight could be put in the bed of the truck...using that fact, my truck is about a 1 and 3/4 ton truck. I do not think (my opinion) you should be worried about the "ride" as much as how much capacity the truck is capable of handling. Since you mentioned full-timing, you should be thinking at least two things: 1, the pin weight shown in the Montana material is an empty/dry weight that will be much lighter than any weight you will likely record when heading out on the road, even for a weekend, and (2), if you end up full-timing, the overall weight of your Montana will likely push the unit's GVWR. So, once again, capacity might be much more important in your decision making than comfort.

[Hooker]

quote:Originally posted by CamillaMichael

I do not think (my opinion) you should be worried about the "ride" as much as how much capacity the truck is capable of handling. Since you mentioned full-timing, you should be thinking at least two things: 1, the pin weight shown in the Montana material is an empty/dry weight that will be much lighter than any weight you will likely record when heading out on the road, even for a weekend, and (2), if you end up full-timing, the overall weight of your Montana will likely push the unit's GVWR. So, once again, capacity might be much more important in your decision making than comfort.

Good advice, you need the 3500/350 series to handle the pin weight.

[exav8tr]

Jeff, I will not address the weight issue as others have already done so. Having towed with both a single rear wheel 3/4 ton and a dual rear wheel one ton, I prefer the ride of the 3/4 better when not towing and the one ton when towing. The dually requires constant vigilance in and around parking lots and obstacles. I learned long ago that parking lots were made for todays tiny cars and not large trucks. I would definitely go with a diesel, (although I understand the 8.1 is a good tower also), for the torque but you must work the weight issue yourself. There are different schools of thought on weights. One is: Any diesel truck will pull these Montanas, another is never overload your truck beyond the manuf specs. It is difficult, not impossible, to load the Montana in such a way that you would not exceed the trucks specs. Do your homework and do what you feel comfortable with.

[thor]

have towed our 3400rl with a 3/4 ton for 6 years.with no problems.if your not full timing then a one ton is quite a truck to use when not towing.all depends on the amount of time towing veruses the amount not towing.

[jmi]

Thanks for all the responses. Haven't made my decision yet, I do have a lot more information thanks the the Montana Owners Forum.

There are so many options it is mind boggling. Nothing beats practical experience found here! Please keep the comments coming.

[dieselguy]

2011 3150RL hooked to 2000 F350 dually ... actual pin weight with @1/3 full fresh water tank is 2340#. Measured by subtracting the truck only sitting on the scales with the fiver hooked up, then lifting the fiver off the truck using the landing gear and weighing the truck alone.

[Tom S.]

The following pertains to Chevy/GMC: A single wheel one ton should ride comparable to a 3/4 ton when both are unloaded because the heavier springs of the one ton don't come into play until there is weight on the truck. The springs are 'progressive' meaning the springs react more as more weight is added, which leads to a better ride when unloaded. I suspect Ford and Ram are similar. The harsher ride of a dually is due more to the extra tires.

[Art-n-Marge]

My two cents..... For a SRW Ford for the past 6-8 years the difference in capacity between a 3/4 ton and a 1 ton is about 900 lbs over the rear axle and about 1,500 lbs gross, and is well worth it to pay the few hundred dollars difference to gain the extra capacity since this satisfies RVs with a gross weight of 7 tons. For newer Montys and such, even the 1 ton will be close because of the pin weight.

The pin weight of a residential 5er (compared to a horse trailer or utility trailer) is higher because of the size of the trailer over the pin and the large storage areas between the pin and the front of the axles. Other trailer types carry their weight over the wheels. This is why the weight of the pin can be as little as 15% for some trailers and up to 25% for a residential 5er RV. I do not full time and my pin weight is at 19%-20% or 2,500 to 2,700 lbs. This will quickly take over a 3/4 ton and now a 1 ton.

Don't ask a salesman (they lie or are mostly ignorant) and are trying to show you the smallest numbers they can find. These numbers are seriously under and are at minimums you'll never achieve as soon as you drive off the lot and fill your storage units. I don't know anyone whose trailer weighs the same as it did on a lot.

Like someone mentioned above, DO NOT think that your diesel powerplant is what tows your trailer. Taking Fords, for example, the same diesel and trans are used in the F-250, F-350, F-450, etc SRW AND DRW. Then why aren't the tow capacities the same? Because there is more to towing the weight besides the engine and trans - frame, suspension, brakes, wheels, tires, differential, axle, drive shaft, or many things that can be weaker than what's on the higher rated truck. On the F-250 versus, F-350 SRWs, the leaf spring pack and larger tires and wheels, are different. But those differences are enough to make a difference.

You are doing the right thing in trying to figure these out, before you buy! I did this after the fact because I trusted the numbers and got burned when the truth came out at the scales and I considered it all my fault for not taking the time to learn the complete details. But I was one of the rare few that was able to fix it; many are not so fortunate and will tow overweight then risk whatever happens or becomes weakened because of it. Just realize some of these become "used" vehicles.

To answer your question, even with the same model trailer and equipment, the weights might be different depending on how and where you put whatever your equipment (generators, W/D, gear, etc.) you stow. Therefore, look at the Gross Trailer weight numbers (shipping weight plus cargo weight). Then multiply this by .18 to .25 and this will give you the range of the expected pin weight (18% to 25%). As mentioned prior I am currently at 19% but have been as high as 20%. Others will be different.

Best of luck with your rig combination!

[pineranch]

Art,
What did you do to "fix it"?
Mike

[Art-n-Marge]

Sorry about the long absence.... Was just able to get online today...

In my case, I went to Ford and found out (just like the Salesman correctly assumed), that the only difference for my 2006 F-250 & an F-350 was an extra overload spring, the brackets and hardware to support it and larger 18" wheels and tires (I had 17"). The comparison was between an F-250 & F-350, 6.0PSD, 3.73 diff, 4x4, long bed, etc. This comparison must be done with a similar truck.

I installed the overload springs myself (I posted the story and pictures some time ago), and after my 17" tires finally wore out, I then bought some 18" "takeoffs" wheels(stock wheels removed by some other owner when they install something fancier on their truck), then bought new tires to go with it (including the spare). This fixed my problem for my personal use. Note the "personal use". Since I did not have my truck recertified with a new VIN and weight capability, I am not able to fully claim compliance, but for personal use, I am fine.

If you'd like more details email me and I'll get back to you when I can.

[CamillaMichael]

quote:Originally posted by Art-n-Marge

Sorry about the long absence.... Was just able to get online today...

In my case, I went to Ford and found out (just like the Salesman correctly assumed), that the only difference for my 2006 F-250 & an F-350 was an extra overload spring, the brackets and hardware to support it and larger 18" wheels and tires (I had 17"). The comparison was between an F-250 & F-350, 6.0PSD, 3.73 diff, 4x4, long bed, etc. This comparison must be done with a similar truck.

I installed the overload springs myself (I posted the story and pictures some time ago), and after my 17" tires finally wore out, I then bought some 18" "takeoffs" wheels(stock wheels removed by some other owner when they install something fancier on their truck), then bought new tires to go with it (including the spare). This fixed my problem for my personal use. Note the "personal use". Since I did not have my truck recertified with a new VIN and weight capability, I am not able to fully claim compliance, but for personal use, I am fine.

If you'd like more details email me and I'll get back to you when I can.

Art, your comment on comparing "similar" trucks is a must and from personal experience, has caused much confusion when trying to identify a particular vehicle's capacity. Even "similar" trucks can often have very different capacities. Just when I thought I had a vehicle down pat, along comes another set of numbers! The good news for me is that I have a vehicle that meets my requirements. Of course, I am always looking for that perfect truck that has all of the numbers I would like (including a low price tag...fat chance).