Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Montana Owners Club - Keystone Montana 5th Wheel Forum > MOC Technical Forums > Repairs & Service
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-04-2010, 05:10 PM   #1
fancherra
New Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Germantown
Posts: 7
M.O.C. #10256
Request for help Mountaineer 345DBQ Elec Failures

Dear Fellow Mountaineers,

On Easter Sunday after addressing a previous plumbing issue in our brand new 345DBQ we experienced complete DC failures and adherent AC electrical dropout and failures in our 2010 Montana Mountaineer. We have written the following letter to our RV dealer to request immediate servicing but wanted to know if any of you had similar experiences with these electrical systems failures and/or warranty repairs or similar electrical issues as your Montanas are lived in, travelled in etc. We are now intending to be full-timers and the following concerns us seriously as to whether this RV is appropriate and sound enough for our needs in living in it while we await military relocation sometime within the next 1-2 years. We appreciate and will answer any responses or queries for more information and will do the same in kind for any Montana Club member presently and in the future. We emphasize that we love our Montana already and we just want to ensure that we keep it safe and sound and liveable so that we can travel with the serenity that it will be road worthy.

A little history is helpful. We bought the Montana on March 2, 2010 and towed it on March 6, 2010 to an RV park in MD where it has been on shore power since that time save one emergency warranty trip back to the dealer. The first warranty "check-up" involved the furnace return in the LR area not having been properly opened and the dealer got us in and fixed it. The venting fans in the two bathrooms both were defective and are awaiting replacement parts and installation under warranty.

The following excerpted letter details our electrical failure issues that commenced on Easter Sunday April 4, 2010. At approximately 15:00 hours on April 4, 2010 we experienced a series of ongoing electrical failures that continue unabated including the propane detector alarm going off, lights dimming, outlet failures, and then cascading electrical failures of both DC and AC power have followed. We have been compelled to run our Ton truck to obtain any power but the RV's battery will not hold a charge and has water in it which is suggestive that the problem lies in part with the converter and related systems. We are living indefinitely in this RV pending our military relocation this year and our household includes a 92 year old woman with health issues, my wife who has serious health issues, my 24 year old son and myself who is a Navy Engineer with many obligations to the national war effort so the worry is that while I'm on Base or on TDY that my family will suffer hardship from this latest warranty repair scenario. As the dealer is well aware I brought this RV in for emergency servicing on March 23, 2010 for a LR furnace return duct related failure. Additionally there are two vent fans repairs issues that are awaiting replacement parts under warranty and the hot water tank access panel had fallen off during transport to Reines for said servicing and it is also awaiting replacement parts and servicing including its replacement.

On Easter Sunday we returned from services to find that we have major DC electrical power issues with AC power failures dropout and involvement since about 15:00 hours. I first checked the battery level of water which was sufficient according to requirements in the owner's manual and utilized the tow vehicle power but that "bandaid" approach is only working minimally and the power failures continue. My family and I are very concerned about these systems' failures in our RV which at this time is our home and we need to make immediate arrangements with you for said necessary repairs that are of no fault of our making. This is clearly a warranty matter and is complicated by the fact that now four people and our pets will forseeably require housing in the interim period while this RV is repaired. Additionally I had taken one week's leave to set up the RV site as evidence by my large purchase of items of over One Thousand Dollars ("$1,000.00") from the same dealer's parts store on Saturday April 3, 2010.

I assured the named dealer in writing via certified mail and by E mail that everyone in our family has treated this RV with great responsibility and no neglect that would have occasioned this serious repair scenario. To complicate the scenario farther, my eldest Navy nuclear submariner son is coming home from a one year's deployment in the Asian corridor and we are scheduled the first week of May to go on the road up and down the Eastern Seaboard and need our RV to be sound and dependable for this important family gathering. Then we requested the dealer's immediate involvement in problem solving by requesting in writing their immediate attention and accomodation by setting us in for immediate servicing of our RV given that the RV has been hooked up to shore power in a stable recognized RV facility for 3 weeks now which means that this failure did not occur during travel or when we were utilizing the battery and/or a generator. Further, until this past Thursday, the family had only stayed briefly in the RV one weekend so we have not had the opportunity before to fully test out the integrity and soundness of the RV's whole major systems until now.

It is my understanding that once on shore power all the DC circuits are powered from the converter, not the RV battery and that AC power should not be affected at all from a DC power problem that originates only from the converter, but the electrical failures and dropouts are much more complicated, ongoing and comprehensive in nature than merely a converter failure problem on its face. The RV power systems are acting like the converter is not working at all and do not recognize "shore power" and they are wholly relying upon the RV's battery which will not hold a charge so we have two adherent system failures simultaneously. When you couple this with the AC failures you can appreciate why we need to know immediately what we are dealing with here and how long it will take to repair and replace these systems and/or fixtures to safely occupy our RV.

If any Montana Mountaineer owners have had similar or same experiences in their RV's I would be so very grateful to hear back from any of you as to how you addressed this serious type of repair scenario while you and your family solely lived in said RV. Do you think it is reasonable and appropriate for us to ask the dealer for accommodations for our family in a modest motel during the repair period (we think this is at a minimum reasonable given that the RV is brand new and under warranty).

Thank you to all who weigh in on this serious issue for our family.

Rick and Michelle
 
fancherra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2010, 09:21 PM   #2
Bill-N-Donna
Montana Master
 
Bill-N-Donna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: South Shore
Posts: 6,009
M.O.C. #7110

Rick, I saw where your wife submitted the problem in another posting but you have explained it in more detail. I do hope that it turns out to be something simple. I would definitely notify the dealer and get them working on this ASAP.

Please keep us posted and let us know how everything turns out. Oh BTW, welcome to the forum, you have found a great place for information and help from fellow Montana owners. I’m sure others will come along that may have the answer you need.
__________________
2011 GMC 4X4 dually CC, 6.6 Duramax with Allison Transmission. Formally 2001 Montana,2007 3400RL Montana, presently 2018 3401RS Alpine.
Bill-N-Donna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2010, 01:17 AM   #3
NCFischers
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New Bern
Posts: 4,369
M.O.C. #8728
Send a message via Yahoo to NCFischers
Rick & Michelle,
From what you describe, it sounds as though you have a possible grounding problem. First, make sure that you have a good ground at the campground pedestal. If you do, check your power cord and power inlet on the trailer. Then try turning off all the circuit breakers except the main breaker. Turn on one breaker at a time and see if the problem is there. This might tell you if one circuit is giving you problems. Without being there to help you I can only point you in a logical troubleshooting direction. Your dealer should be able to find and fix your problem. Let us know how you make out.
Jim
NCFischers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2010, 03:06 AM   #4
bob n pam
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: sioux falls
Posts: 1,835
M.O.C. #2121
Rick, we can't help much, but can give you our support. Hope this get resolved soon.
bob n pam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2010, 03:34 AM   #5
SlickWillie
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location:
Posts: 2,376
M.O.C. #6575
Personally, I would check all connections I could access. That is one of the first things I did (thanks to MOC). Seems the laborers at Keystone are a little timid on tightening screws in the electrical panel and such. Include the plugs on the shorepower cord. Good luck!
SlickWillie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2010, 09:52 AM   #6
Tom S.
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Waterford
Posts: 3,693
M.O.C. #7500
Your understanding on the DC power is not correct. The power still comes from the battery with the converter charging the battery. It's a minor point though. It is fairly common for the circuit breaker on the converter to trip (for no apparent reason????), thus the battery discharges completely and your 12 volt stuff quits working. The CO2 detector will sound when the battery voltage is low - as you have found out. So first check the circuit breaker (breaker - not fuse) for the converter. If it's OK, make sure you have power on both sides of the power pedestal. We have lost one leg of our power for no apparent reason at a park before. If both of these items pass the test, check the converter for 12 volt output. Since you bought the Montana this year, I'm guessing it's a 2010 with a new battery. Although not impossible, I don't think the problem is the battery, but one of the items/issues I mentioned. Let us know what you find out.


And welcome to the site!!!!
Tom S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2010, 10:49 AM   #7
SlickWillie
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location:
Posts: 2,376
M.O.C. #6575
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Tom S.

Your understanding on the DC power is not correct. The power still comes from the battery with the converter charging the battery. It's a minor point though.
I'm gonna ask you to explain that one. I'm sure the battery covers surges, but it my belief the converter, having the higher voltage of the two, will handle the biggest part of the DC load up to it's rating.
SlickWillie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2010, 06:35 PM   #8
Art-n-Marge
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Murrieta
Posts: 5,816
M.O.C. #9257
Send a message via MSN to Art-n-Marge Send a message via Yahoo to Art-n-Marge
Hey Will, I have heard what Tom says several times from several people and it still makes no sense to me. At home I connect to 15 amp shore power and disconnect the batteries from the rig to connect them to a 110v Battery charger/conditioner. In other words, the batteries are NOT connected to the trailer and all the 12v systems work pretty good even then including the propane detector. If after this, I disconnect the shore cable, the propane detector will scream briefly (because of the power loss) and then silence itself and the indicator light goes out like there is no power (as expected, since the batteries are not connected).

I can't remember which but it is recommended the slides or the landing gear be done with the batteries in place, so I will level the trailer prior to disconnecting the batteries, or reconnect the batteries to operate the slides even when at home to gain access or test things. But then I will disconnect the batteries and put them back on the Battery minder. No problems so far.

As for what Fancherra is experiencing, that's way out of my league. So far, some MOC electrical experts have commented, and I hope to see some more, like Ozz or others. I sure like learning about their debugging and resolution techniques. I continue to learn enough to know I should still rely on their expertise.

Good luck to you Fancherra. Keep after the dealer for help. You might also want to get Keystone involved as well, just to keep them up-to-date so they can't claim ignorance.
Art-n-Marge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2010, 01:14 AM   #9
SlickWillie
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location:
Posts: 2,376
M.O.C. #6575
Converter higher voltage equals higher "pressure". Most converters will operate independent of the battery from what I have seen. The hydraulic slide pump can draw more current than the converter can supply.

All that being said, I don't think this issue is a converter problem. Jim (NCFischers) gave a good troubleshooting procedure. We never had a similar problem, but I was sure surprised at the loose wires I found in the distribution panel.

BTW Fancherra, welcome to the MOC, and the world of RVing. Fulltime in an RV can sometimes be an exasperating adventure when you have warranty issues. I was glad when the warranty expired on our Mountaineer. Now, I just call the extended warranty company, get repairs approved, and pay a small service call (30 bucks I think). Makes life a lot simpler not having to have a place to stay while the fiver is in the shop.

SlickWillie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2010, 01:40 AM   #10
Tom S.
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Waterford
Posts: 3,693
M.O.C. #7500
Think of it this way. Take a 12 volt battery and hook some lights and other stuff up to it. That's your trailer. Then add a charging device to keep the batter charged - that's the converter. Now take it a step further by putting some values on things. Let's say the converter is rated at 45 amps. If you pull the cover off your fuse panel, you will note that if you add the total of the listed amp ratings of the fuses, you greatly surpass the 45 amps of the converter. If you drew your 12 volt electricity from the converter first, it would be exceeding it's rating. The battery is rated at a much higher amperage draw and will easily handle more than 45 amps. So electrical demands are met by the battery.

Think of it this way: The battery is a big bucket with little pipes running off to provide water to several places. The converter is like a hose thrown over the top of the bucket to keep it full. That's an over simplification, but I think it gets the point across.
Tom S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2010, 01:55 AM   #11
SlickWillie
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location:
Posts: 2,376
M.O.C. #6575
Tom, the converter also has those little pipes, only they're carrying higher pressure (voltage). The higher pressure will prevail until you increase the volume (amps) to the point where the pressures are equal. Then the battery will also provide current. At least that's the way I see it.
SlickWillie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Washer dryer combo in 345dbq kaywoodgang Additions & Improvements 1 04-02-2016 04:43 AM
Mountaineer 345DBQ - furnace? philhyde General Discussions about our Montanas 11 03-17-2012 04:33 AM
Mountaineer 345DBQ - opinions? philhyde General Discussions about our Montanas 5 03-07-2012 04:07 PM
Montana - Mountaineer recall elec. system brooksider General Discussions about our Montanas 3 12-15-2010 02:09 AM
New 2008 Mountaineer 345DBQ Trapper350 General Discussions about our Montanas 8 08-15-2009 05:27 AM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Montana RV, Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.