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Old 02-16-2017, 07:49 AM   #1
mdshope
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Tow Vehicle Questions

I have a 2012 Ford F250 with 6.7L diesel. My wife an I are looking at moving to a fifth wheel and really like the new Montana 3811MS.

I would like your opinion on this. I was looking on the Ford Forum and saw this “there is no real difference between the F250 and F350 except 2” bigger rear blocks. When looking at towing a fifth wheel the most important things are; to not exceed your front and rear axel GAWR, not exceed your tires weight rating and your overall GCVWR” with that said I put together these numbers and want the forums thoughts.
My trucks front GAWR is 5600 lbs and rear GAWR is 6100 lbs my overall GCVWR is 23,500 lbs. My truck at the scales was 8060 with a front weight of 4800 and rear weight of 3260. Add a 100 lbs by taking off my hard shell and adding the fifth wheel hitch I would put my loaded truck numbers very close to 8160 with a front of 4800 and a rear 3360. The fifth wheel we are looking at is the Montana 3811MS it has a dry weight of 13400 and a pin weight of 2705 I know from weighing our current RV we have about 1200 lbs in cargo, gear and water when we travel on longer trips so that would put the fifth wheel at a loaded weight of 14600. When towing the fifth wheel I would think my rear weight would be 6065 which is under the GAWR on the door sticker of 6100 the overall GCVWR when towing would be 22,760 which is under the trucks 23,500 GCVWR the fifth wheel loaded would be 14600 which is under the 15200 that is listed as the max fifth wheel weight listed in the Ford 2012 tow guide. I am pretty sure the 6.7L diesel and the transmission in the truck is meant to do heavy duty work.
My question is this sound logic or am I just manipulating numbers to get the outcome I am looking for. I am pretty sure I will need to add air bags to the rear to help with squat other than should I be good or am I just dreaming…..
 
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Old 02-16-2017, 08:29 AM   #2
TLightning
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Check the truck's cargo capacity on the Tire and Loading Information sticker on one of the driver's door posts. With a 5th wheel having a GVWR of nearly 17k, thus a pin weight of 3,400# (20%), you'll be well over your truck's GVWR, especially when you add everything else we carry in our trucks.

People don't like to hear it, but you need a dually to haul one of these big rigs and stay within the truck manufacturer's numbers. Don't listen to the "pulls fine" and "never had a problem" posts. Do the numbers and go from there.
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Old 02-16-2017, 12:39 PM   #3
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I disagree with Tlightning. 8160 + 3400 = 11500 or so. I think the Silverado 3500 has a GVWR near that amount. I don't remember exactly. I agree the 2500 would be overloaded. I myself have about 10400 on my 2500, so am over a bit; but the back end doesn't droop so I live with it.
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Old 02-16-2017, 07:04 PM   #4
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Actual pin weight going down the road will easily be 3K give or take a little, so if unloaded your rear axle is 3260 (your numbers) add to it the pin and you're at 6260 give or take, so your're over your 6100 rear axle spec.
You will see all types pulling things they shouldn't, so only you can make the decision for you, your family, and the rest of us shareing the road with you.
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Old 02-16-2017, 07:11 PM   #5
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We will always pull with a DRW, and the extra capacity provided.
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Old 02-17-2017, 08:41 AM   #6
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DRW best way to go for handling and overall safety in my opinion as well....would never go back to a 250 or 350 SW....been there and done that....
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Old 02-17-2017, 02:07 PM   #7
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I think this topic has been kicked around a bunch before. There are some who have the truck they have, and are happy with it, and some that will attempt to pull a Monty fiver with a mini truck, but for me, I wanted all the safety I could afford, and bought a brand new truck with the most pulling power there is for a non-commercial truck, and dual rear wheels and auto air bags, and 25,000 pound hitch made in America etc. I just wanted to be as safe as possible. So it really is up to your budget on what you will probably end up with.
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Old 02-17-2017, 02:18 PM   #8
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I have seen many folks hauling large fivers with 3/4 ton vehicles. Understand, the engine, transmission, etc. are the same in the 250/2500 vs. the 350/3500 vehicles. And yes, the 250/2500 trucks will probably do the job. However, do not be fooled into thinking you're OK with that. God forbid, should you ever be involved in an crash, especially with injuries, and it is learned that you vehicle is overweight, the lawyers will have a field day with you. Even if you were stopped and not moving an inch, some lawyer (and no offense to all you attorneys out there) will find a way to drag you into civil court and cost you a ton of money and aggravation. You can add springs, bigger axle, hell rebuild on a Kenworth frame. If the registration papers don't agree with the actual weight of the vehicle it will be open season on you. It's all in the paper work.

An example, my old truck weighed 7008# empty. FORD, who built the truck, placed a sticker on the door post saying the GVWR was 9100. But my registration said the truck was legal to 8400. That's 700 pounds less that the manufacturer says it's safe at. But if I paid the extra money to the state and got the higher registration, to 9700, then I was safe to that weight, even though FORD said the truck is only safe to 9100#. Go figure.

My advise, do not ever over load your vehicle. The sharks will eat you alive.
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Old 02-17-2017, 03:00 PM   #9
dhenry3
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I agree with Slufoot733. Not only will the sharks eat you alive, but DMV officers have started checking RV's every now and then and you don't even want to know how much it will cost you if you are over weight. Better safe than sorry
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Old 02-17-2017, 03:10 PM   #10
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My opinion is that you would be fine. Regarding the accident, there is no way that a trailer is going to be the same pre-accident as it is post-accident. I can tell you that 1000# can be dismissed with minimal to no effort. I can tell you from 37 years of handling claims, insurance companies or attorneys aren't interested in trying to guess on weights unless they have a specific bill of lading for a recently loaded trailer. I'm not condoning going overweight, I'm just saying the numbers are what they are.
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Old 02-17-2017, 03:58 PM   #11
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stengels, that is kind of what my thinking is too. If I am under the tow rating (I forget the acronym) when looking at the truck and the trailer specs, then I don't think they will tow everything in to a scales and put the Monty back on the truck to weigh it. And if my wife and I are out of the truck , then I am good anyway. :-)
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Old 02-17-2017, 04:05 PM   #12
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Tom, I don't think it is about being caught, as much as do you feel comfortable, that you have all the reserve capacities you will need when the time comes when you will need it, like an instance when you are on the road, and all the weight gets shifted to one side because of a hazard or the slope of the road, and will your setup hold up under the strain. If it is about being caught, then I am guilty of driving illegally, whenever I drive in California, because I did not pass the Non-commercial Class A physical driving test with my Monty. I proved it is next to impossible to pass in my setup, but they don't care. So technically I am illegal in one state out of fifty? Good OL' Kalifornia!
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Old 02-18-2017, 09:34 AM   #13
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your f250 will be fine. most rvers have 3/4 ton trucks. you don't have to upgrade.
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Old 02-18-2017, 05:49 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by mazboy View Post
your f250 will be fine. most rvers have 3/4 ton trucks. you don't have to upgrade.
I'm sorry, let's be realistic here, that's just not true. We are discussing a 17k Montana, not a 5k pull behind. The OP needs to do the numbers.
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Old 02-18-2017, 06:04 PM   #15
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Someone mentioned the DMV. I'm sure all states are different but here in Virginia it depends on how your truck is tagged. If you have truck tags they must cover the weight of the truck and camper. For example if the truck is 8000 pounds and the camper is 12000 pounds your truck tags must be at least 20000 pounds. If you have car tags the tags for the truck must only cover the truck and the trailer tags must cover the trailer. As they are weighted separate. With truck tags they are weighed is a unit. With all of that said campers are never checked according to all the police I have ask. They say we don't have time to fool with campers.
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Old 02-19-2017, 12:16 PM   #16
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As a police officer for 37 years I will agree with the last statement. The police rarely, if ever, mess with campers. But I stick to my previous statement about the issues of being over weight and court. Yes, the 250 will handle the trailer. You're pushing it but it will do the job. My point is IF/WHEN something does go wrong, then the numbers become very important. Don't you see all the commercials on TV from the "injury lawyers", "YOU DON'T PAY UNLESS WE GET YOU MONEY", or, "WE FIGHT FOR EVERY PENNY YOU DESERVE". Folks, if you are on the receiving end, even if you win your case, the attorney fees will wipe you out. And six or seven years of prepping for the case, then only to settle out of court.....well, not for me. IMHO, better safe than sorry. Either invest in a bigger truck or buy a lighter fiver.
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Old 02-19-2017, 12:58 PM   #17
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I ask my Allstate agent about being sued. They called Allstate, don't worry we have lawyers on staff and you are covered. They get the insurance company's money. If you run a red light, you are speeding, driving drunk, or over weight, you are covered. They insured you and you are covered. They can't decide when to cover you.
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Old 02-19-2017, 03:52 PM   #18
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Probably a good idea to pose the question to all Montana owners out there, that have Allstate, and have had major claims with their RV, and how did the whole process go?
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Old 02-20-2017, 12:40 PM   #19
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You dont want to exceed the combined gross vehicle weight rating of the truck and trailer. If you are in a accident than weight in the trailer will shift so there is no way to see if the truck was overloaded at the time of the accident but the combined weight of trailer and truck should not exceed the sticker on the truck. I pull a 13,000 Montana with my F250 SRW and have no problems pulling or stopping my rig. I haven't had any problems in the wind ether. I use my truck for more than camping so a DRW was to much truck for going to the store and such
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Old 02-20-2017, 01:53 PM   #20
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...I use my truck for more than camping so a DRW was to much truck for going to the store and such...
When I went truck shopping it was for a 2500 D/A. It was, in my mind, the perfect truck to do the job, a diesel, Allison transmission, not to big, would fit in the garage, go through the drive throughs, fit in the standard parking lot, etc. During my shopping, I talked to an older guy who was also looking for a truck for a 5th wheel. To make a long story short, he convinced me I should not buy the truck I wanted, but buy the truck I needed. I wanted that 2500, but after we did the numbers, there was no doubt I "needed" a dually. The rest they say is history.
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