Insulated doors?

[jameswbarton]

Are the Exterior baggage storage doors insulated in a 2016 High Country?

[dieselguy]

Can't answer A High Country specific question ... I'd guess all main storage doors have styrofoam like cores ... my 2011 Montana does. The propane doors are not. The belly pan is not sealed well and the storage compartment and belly are not completely sealed from one another for further food for thought.

[jameswbarton]

Thanks I was guessing the basement doors are filled with foam.

I attempted to determine how much air intrusion I had from the basement into the heater duct. From the basement into the coach interior, and from the outside directly into the coach.

I found almost no issues with outside air getting directly into the living area except for making sure all your inside and outside slide wipers are properly positioned. In my two front living room slides every time I move the slide a cable gets stuck between the slide bottom and wiper seal. I have asked two warranty dealers to fix this but it is still not fixed. All other window and door seals seem to be satisfactory.

There is in my 2016 the same issue that has been reported for years with basement air coming out of the floor heating ducts and stair intake grilles. So the factory has yet to do anything about that issue so I will do the cures.

There is also substantial air leakage from the basement into the bathroom vanity, The kitchen sink cabinet, and the buffet cabinet between the kitchen and the front living room. I will try the fixes identified in earlier postings.

I also have door into the pass through compartment that will not seal allowing air and water into the basement. The door seals appear scant but I will try to adjust the door closing before I try a better quality seal.

I do not think any of these issues are new to this forum. It is a surprise in that the issues are reported in much older coaches and are still an issue in current manufacturing.

[Bama Camper]

quote:Originally posted by jameswbarton

Are the Exterior baggage storage doors insulated in a 2016 High Country?

No, they are not.

I sealed up the slats in the stair risers. This helped tremendously with cooling last summer. I realize this is also the return air path for the heater, but I can't detect much air flow in that direction when the heater is on and the slats are uncovered. I'll probably leave them covered this winter unless I see a problem; we don't use the furnace much any way. I think my biggest air intrusion into the basement would be through the convenience center hole (I usually leave it open), then up and over the convenience center wall. When we DO use the furnace, I would be heating outside air instead of inside recirculated air. But, that is OK since the furnace is adequate enough to do this.

[jameswbarton]

Thanks! My traveling Nurse partner may get a contract extension and we would have to do a winter in Kalamazoo Michigan so I am trying to find out how bad heating a High County can be. I noticed today that there i a tremendous amount of air transferring from the pass through storage to the interior. If the doors are not insulated the in my HC 375 FL I will also have issues with cold walls in the bedroom facing exterior storage compartments.

[Bama Camper]

Most of my camping is further South, but we rarely use the furnace. With temps down to the 30s, we just use an electric heater in the living room, and if it's really cold, one in the bedroom. Of course, that doesn't help the bathroom. The biggest heat loss we have is the single pane windows. The cold air coming off the windows makes the camper feel "drafty". Double pane were an option, but we decided against them. I don't regret it for our area of the country, but I can tell they are not suited for extended low temps. Haven't noticed the walls being cold, however.

I would still recommend that you close the slats under the stairs, and stuff rags in the pipe chases under the kitchen and bathroom sinks.

[Lenny K]

James. You're going to have to block the air from coming into the storage compartment as was explained in some previous posts. You have to use low expansion foam in the holes under the island and other places in the trailer where pipes and electrical enter. It isn't that big of a job and will stop the drafts from entering your trailer.

[jcurtis934]

Like dieselguy said...big holes exist into underbelly and passthrough area. On the frame where the hydraulic rams exit, those lead into underbelly which leads to passthrough area. Front levelers and mids lead into passthrough. That "heating feature" for the underbelly...is one 2.5" flexible hose off the furnace draped down by tanks with its opening wide open. I had mice crawl up into it and into heat exchanger. Now covered with stout wire fence material over the hose and extended out another six inches or so before crimping end shut. Either side of the entry stairs by frame was entry into underbelly on my rig. Slits in metal behind propane bottles lead into front storage with holes leading into underbelly. How much of all this will create a winter nightmare I don't know...but leveler leg holes are major. John

[jameswbarton]

Today I removed coverings to do an inspection/examination of the heated basement.

Why would anyone put insulation in the bottom of an area that lets in daylight from many any places. You just are not going to heat the outside with a 2 inch heat hose and are just wasting propane.

I now see why the AC also does not work due to the basement lack of sealing. I think it is a couple weeks work to fix those air intrusion/insulation issues. You all understated the issue slightly.

The heat flexible heat hoses should have been insulated. There is only one small piece of heat duct in the front of the unit that is also not insulated. I wonder why none of the ductwork, plumbing, and wiring is anchored? It seems to me We are in for lots of issues due to that stuff bouncing around on bad roads if we keep the units too many years. Many of the TV cable wire connectors were also loose.

If I had seen how badly the basement stuff was done I would not have bought the Montana. No Quality in areas that you normally would not see.

I am glad I found your information on this but I had no idea how much work I need to do to make it all weather 4 season able as the brochure stated..

[mlh]

If your HC is like mine and I suspect it is your floor might be your biggest problem. The floor is 2 peices of OSB with 2 inches of rigid foam between them. This makes a great floor but it also leaves your pipes uninsulated. You might check to see if is correct. If it is I would attach an inch or more foam to the bottom of my camper.
Lynwood

[jameswbarton]

In my HC 375 FL The floor appears to be a single piece of wood with no insulation but a black under layment. I will look closer tomorrow to see if it is a sandwitch.

Below the floor in the belly nothing is insulated well, there is a piece of the thin foil insulation lying on top of the black underbelly covering. None of the piping or heater ducting is insulated and I can see daylight coming in everywhere. I would estimate the daylight area is the size of a 30 inch window. There is a freeway for any rodent or snake to get into the coach through the basement.

I did an experiment today and negatively pressurized the interior to see where the cold air intruded. What I found was that when I opened the smaller basement pass through door and stuck my head in it was like a wind tunnel with the cold rushing in. To fix it right I would have to remove most of the belly covering to get to the spaces that need insulation. I am surprised the tanks do not freeze it is certainly not designed for cold weather in the basement.

I do not think I can get the basement completely closed in but it should be. It might be possible to add a layer of 1/2 or 3/4 inch foam board above the black belly covering and tape the edges with foil. I wondered why the black belly board was so wavy but now I see it is the weight of the wiring, plumbing and ducting sitting on it.

[mlh]

Mine is a 2011 and yours is a 2016. The floor may have been changed. Good luck, sounds like you will need it.
Lynwood

[jameswbarton]

Hi mlh,
Yes my floor is exactly as you described with foam laminated to OSB sheets. I used to live in VA and wintering was not bad. In Frankenmuth Mi. winter is another story. It gets way below 0 here is Jan and Feb.

After more examination I have decided to separate the basement into an upper and lower. Most of the bad air leakage is in the lower sections below the main floor. I am going to seal all holes to the upper floor extending the entire floor including under the stairs to the pass through baggage wall. This includes the plumbing chases under the sinks and the holes into the cabinet between the front living and kitchen. Since the furnace air return is not ducted, mine was completely sealed off as they covered the area behind the grills with carpet so the furnace could not work correctly having to draw all of its air from the lower basement and pass through areas.

I am going to enclose the pass through storage rear wall and ceiling with foam board making the area separate. The space with the furnace water pump etc will now be part of the upper living area.

I decided to heat the pass through storage using the 2 inch furnace supply and will connect the supply to the storage using a adjustable vent so I can heat the storage or not.

I priced insulated heater duct hose and plumbing insulation and it is worth while replacing and insulating but will take considerable effort to remove most the the bottom black panels. Fixing this area is too much for me to do before winter so I decided to heat the lower basement using a marine boat bilge heater which is safe and has freeze function and three adjustable heat levels. I have one extra breaker so it will have its own circuit and switch. It will mount in the lower basement. Some day in the future when spring arrives I will fix the rest of the lower basement issues.

This should give me a fighting chance to stay warm..

BTW I finished all of my AC work today taping and adding vents. While it was not really hot today at 87 degrees in full sun the two AC's easily cooled the coach to the lowest thermostat setting of 60 degrees with the floor vents covered making a 27 degree temperature drop instead of my original 8 degrees. Both ac's were cycling on auto fan and shutoff completely at times. So in my 2016 HC 35FL I was able to get a 27 degree temperature drop from supply to return air and also a s7 degree temperarture drop from inside to outside air. It does work if Keystome had met the installation specifications of Dometic. I also had to insulate both thermostats from the waa they are mounted on.

[Dam Worker]

Looks like you are making good progress. The ability to cool or heat the inside will be well worth your time. Sharing a few pictures would be really nice. I just wish it was easier to share pictures on this site.

Tom Marty

[mlh]

I would say you have it all figured out. Good luck and stay warm up there in the frozen north land.
Lynwood

[jameswbarton]

I do wish it had been built correctly but it will not cost much except for labor to get the basement in better shape. I did have to get floor registers that are adjustable as the airflow out of them was very uneven and stronger closer to the furnace. I am felling much better about the High Country now that the systems are beginning to work correctly with the repairs in and not in warranty. I did not evr plan to winter up North and last year the MotorHome nearly froze me. You just cannot predict the future.

[Bama Camper]

quote:Originally posted by jameswbarton

I decided to heat the lower basement using a marine boat bilge heater which is safe and has freeze function and three adjustable heat levels.

Good idea, I may do that myself.

Before I sealed up my pipe chase under the bathroom sink, I dropped the sensor end of an indoor/outdoor thermometer through the hole into the basement area. You may want to do the same in order to verify operation of the heater and just generally keep an eye on temps there.

[jameswbarton]

Thanks for the riminder on a temperature sensor I keep forgetting to get a unit on order for inside, outside and basement temps, maybe humidity as I always run a dehumidifier.

[grayghost03]

After sealing the best you can, skirting and a couple of heat lamps under your rig, will keep your underbelly from freezing, remember you don't have to keep it warm, just above 32*. Don't forget to heat the hoses. The blue heated hose, we have, worked fine at -10F. And in snow.

[jameswbarton]

I finally got an answer from Keystone on the entry doors, and storage compartment door insulation. I asked are they insulated and the reply was "There is some insulation in both entry doors and storage compartment doors". What does that mean? I will ask a follow up question.