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Old 03-31-2007, 06:19 AM   #1
Dean A Van Peursem
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Brake Failure 3400RL

We have traveled from Apache Junction, AZ to Bend, Or in the last 4 days. Had tire valve core leaking problems one day and finally got it fixed near Sacremento, CA. But after going through several mountain passes with many several mile 6% grades I didn't feel comfortable the brakes on our late 2006 3400RL were working right. About 50 miles South of Bend, OR on Highway 97, any time the brakes were applied, the front end of the truck would be sharply pulled to the left. First thought it might be a truck brake problem but as we limped into Bend, I became convinced that one side of the 3400RL brakes were not working any more. Proved to be true when I disconnected from the RV at the dealer since the truck by itself did not exhibit the problem.

We have the 3400RL at the local (All Seasons RV & Marine) Montana dealer to address a list of over 26 warranty repair items that need to be fixed. However, previously, most were annoying/poor quality issues however, the brake isssue is a real safety issue. If the brakes had failed completely on some the mountain passes we may not have been here to report this problem. I suspect the issue is that the wires are shorting out as has been reported earlier by others. If this proves to be true then Montana has a legal obligation to recall all 3400RL's.

We will see how well Montana and the local dealer respond to these repair requirements. I will follow up with areport as to how this issue gets resolved.
 
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Old 03-31-2007, 07:28 AM   #2
Sunshine
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Sorry to hear about your brake problems and hope that you get them resolved quickly. All Season's is where we bought our Montana and they have always treated us right. Scott and Andy in the service department are two great guys to deal with.
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Old 03-31-2007, 09:45 AM   #3
Montana Sky
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Wow!
Such a scary situation; I am so happy to hear you made it safely into Bend, OR. Keep us updated on how the repairs are coming along...
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Old 03-31-2007, 11:11 AM   #4
richfaa
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Because of reports on this forum we got under the 3400 as soon as we got it home from the dealer(Ours is less than 2 months older than yours) and dressed back all the brake wiring that went into the hub. We have had no brake problems.Would not be a bit surprised if you find some frayed wires as a result of rubbing. If so Keystone should be held accountable for that... Also replaced all the OEM valve stems after one leaked badly on the first trip out.
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Old 04-01-2007, 11:24 AM   #5
Cat320
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by richfaa

Because of reports on this forum we got under the 3400 as soon as we got it home from the dealer(Ours is less than 2 months older than yours) and dressed back all the brake wiring that went into the hub. We have had no brake problems.Would not be a bit surprised if you find some frayed wires as a result of rubbing. If so Keystone should be held accountable for that... Also replaced all the OEM valve stems after one leaked badly on the first trip out.
What do you mean by "dressed back all the brake wiring?"
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Old 04-01-2007, 03:47 PM   #6
richfaa
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Routed it back out of the way of anything that they might rub against and also tie wrapped the wires on the outside to keep them from flapping in the wind.Sorry for the Dressed back termonology..Reverted back to my previous life as a ET.
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Old 04-02-2007, 08:15 PM   #7
Dean A Van Peursem
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Monday night status:

Not going well at all. Dropped the 3400RL off at All Seasons RV in Bend, OR around 3:00PM Friday afternoon. I was told that since there was so many warranty repair items that they would start work on Saturday. Dropped by on Saturday, not working on unit when I arrived but had fixed a couple minor items. Dropped in again twice on Monday AM and PM and both times they were not working on unit. The PM visit I was told they couldn't find anything wrong with the brakes. I told them there was something seriously wrong and it may be intermittent. And they better keep looking. Suggested hooking my TV up for testing. Didn't accept offer.

I asked if they had winterized the unit since it got down to 22 degrees here last night. "NO" was the answer - I didn't tell them to. I wasn't asked about it and I couldn't get into the lot on Sunday. Do you want us to, it will cost $64.00? I was steaming by this time and went out and winterized it myself. Hopefully no damage has been done. Where is the common sense?

Called Team Montana and asked if they had authorized all the warranty work? No request has been made. Asked All Seasons and the warranty clerk says it's all approved by Montana. I don't know who to beleive any more. Apollo was supposed to be contacted after All Seasons was to test the 1/2 time oven problems. Then probably a new oven was probably going to be needed and sent to a dealer of my choice since it wouldn't get here in time. All Seasons hasn't tested the oven yet and complained that they wouldn't get paid for the testing if the oven had to be replaced by another dealer. Way different story than what I was told before I arrived. Something isn't kosher here. I suspect The person I'm working with at All Seasons is being undermined by another higher up at the dealership. I'm getting concerned about what really is going on behind the scenes. Anyone with suggestions?
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Old 04-04-2007, 05:52 AM   #8
Fire5er
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Common sense isn't all that common. I would ask to see the owner or manager of the dealership and tell him/her of the issues you have posted here. Then get the dealership and a Team Montana rep on the phone in a conference call and get down to the facts so you all are on the same page and no one can blow smoke up your @$$. Good luck!
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Old 04-04-2007, 09:57 AM   #9
sreigle
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Dean, maybe if they hook up a TV, then trip the emergency brake lanyard, they'll see if all four brakes are locking up? Or jack one wheel of the trailer at a time and pull the lanyard and see if they can turn the wheel.
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Old 04-04-2007, 02:09 PM   #10
Dean A Van Peursem
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Wednesday night Status:

Stopped by the dealer this afternoon. They said they were done. Started asking questions. Brake issue not resolved. They put it behind their shop TV and were not able to duplicate the problem. I asked if they had taken the wheels and hubs off to check the wiring inside? NO. Why not? Response: Not authorized by Montana. Asked if they had called Montana. NO. Requested they call Montana in the AM to get authorization. They said they would. I also volunteered to hook it back up to my TV again to see if it could be duplicated but I'm still very concerned about an intermittent problem. This is a major safety issue! Very scary and do not understand the dealers reluctance to get to the bottom of the issue. I asked to make a joint call to Montana in the eaqrly AM to get this problem escalated at the factory. The dealer doesn't want to do the joint call for some reason. I will do so myself in the morning.

Second major unresolved issue is the Super Slide roof sagging and binding on the carpet. This dealer wasn't going to do anything to fix it. Asked if they had contacted Montana for guidance. "NO" was the answer. I again requested they contact the Montana factory to find out how to get it fixed. The roof is sagging again in the middle as well even after the metal stiffiner was added when we first purchased the unit. This is another major issue as the upper rubber seal does not seal anymore in the middle. The tech stated that he could put his finger between the seal and the roof of the slide. It's gotten worse since we were in AZ. Have any other 3400RL owners had a recurrence of the roof sag on the Super Slide even after the metal stiffener has been added? This is a major problem as well since rain water will penetrate the inside this way.

These two issues consumed the afternoon conversation to the point I don't know how well the rest of the issues have been fixed. TBD.

I will call the factory myself in the AM to see if I can light some fires! Presently not a happy 3400RL owner.
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Old 04-04-2007, 02:29 PM   #11
Cat320
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Follow the money.

The dealer's reluctance to do much of anything has to do with money...reimbursement for parts/labor possibly. That would seem to be the only reason not to get after it and fix the problems.
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Old 04-04-2007, 03:20 PM   #12
Dean A Van Peursem
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I can understand why the delaer is reluctant to do anything w/o compensation but what I don't understand is why they haven't contacted Montana for help and authorization to do the work. Doesn't make sense to me. Something is fishy in Denmark.
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Old 04-05-2007, 09:16 AM   #13
Dean A Van Peursem
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This whole situation is really getting out of hand. Dealer tells me that they have contacted Montana to get authorization to remove wheels and hubs to try to locate possible intermittent brake problem. According to them Montana has refused to authorize. I immediately call Montana and they say no one has contacted them regarding this issue. Montana is now calling the dealer here in Bend, OR to see if they can get this resolved. What a mess. Montana is supposed to call me after they contact the dealer. Haven't heard back yet. Montana also won't authorize this dealer to fix the sagging super slide roof. It has to go back to the original dealer who did the first warranty work on the roof. If Montana is trying to make this so difficult that I will give up on this issue they have a rude awakening in store. This is nothing but ridiculous. It has been repeatedly stated on the MOC board that Montana stands behind their product. I am not experiencing this kind of response from Montana at all.

The local Bend dealer and Montana don't seem to give a damn about the potential that I could be pulling an RV through mountains w/o half the brakes working. I've already experienced 50% brake failure on the road. It would seem to me that the potential liability would cause everyone involved to go the extra mile to try to locate the problem. I just don't get it. May I repeat. Something isn't Kosher.
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Old 04-05-2007, 10:37 AM   #14
robb
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It appears that Montana and the dealers are dropping the ball a lot!!
My dealer, Fourwinds, claims they are not getting anything from Montana.
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Old 04-05-2007, 10:54 AM   #15
richfaa
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We were not far from Dean in Apache Junction. We met, had dinner and we also looked over his 3400. Dean has real , not overstated problems.I have about as many problems as he has although most of mine are not as serious. Dean is not a yelling screaming stamp your foot get in your face guy. He is also a stick to his guns guy.Our dealings with Keystone have been very positive and we will be at the service center April 16th to address our problems..we will see how that goes and you can be sure of a report no matter what.We have not had to deal with a dealer other than our selling dealer and that of course has been very positive. I think there are a lot of dealers out there that need an Attitude adjustment.
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Old 04-05-2007, 06:40 PM   #16
Dean A Van Peursem
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Thursday night status:

Round 1 ended tonight with Montana refusing to authorize removal of the wheels and brake drums to inspect for possible problems. Took several phone calls to even get to that point. Montana attitude went totally cold when pictures and discussions from this board relative to similar brake problems were presented. End of discussion. I drew a very significant conclusion from that black and white refusal after further evidence of other brake problems were presented. I'll let you folks draw your own conclusions.

End result:

1.)No further work to find brake problem authorized.
2.)Apollo Oven has to be replaced by my designated dealer only if they agree with the assesement that the oven needs to be replaced.
3. Super Slide has to be repaired by the original dealer who did the initial warranty work on the slide.

I think this is known as being stonewalled.

Round 2 will be interesting.

We leave here tomorrow to head home unless the brake problem is so severe that is completely unsafe. I'll probably have to find and fix the problem myself. I'm really disappointed and discouraged relative to Montana's support. At this point in time I think the Bend, OR dealer did as much as they could w/o support from the Montana factory.


PS: Rich, thanks for the kind words.
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Old 04-06-2007, 02:46 AM   #17
richfaa
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You may have better luck with the Apollo oven by dealing with Apollo direct.We never talked to keystone or the dealer on our Apollo oven replacement. I can understand that the original dealer who did the work on the slide should be held accountable for the work should it be defective and make it right at no cost to you.The cost to correct bad work should be his..not another dealer. The brake issue is another matter By refusing to address a known problem Keystone , I think, has left themselves open to Liability.I hope you have some verification of the problem and Keystones refusal to address it. If it were me and the brake issue is as bad as you describe I would go the expense to have all the wheels pulled and check for and correct any issue found..Then based on the results, if a serious problem is found..have another chat with Keystone...perhaps by your Attorney.. I would not take the chance that there might be 12K+ of camper behind me that may or may not have brakes... Just my thoughts...
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Old 04-06-2007, 03:29 AM   #18
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Dean I agree with Rich. As I have stated many times before I am not concern about pin weight but rather the ability to stop.
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Old 04-06-2007, 05:03 AM   #19
Dean A Van Peursem
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The Apollo oven warranty procedure has changed according to Keystone. All Apollo warranty claims now must be made directly with the Montana Factory directly NOT through the Apollo distributer which sells to Keystone, which was the procedure before. Montana has made that new procedure very clear now to both the Bend, OR dealer and my original dealer in WA. I had to inform both dealers of the new procedure and after they contacted Montana they too were informed directly by Montana that all Apollo claims now have to go direct to Montana. No work can be done by a Montana dealer unless they are the dealer reporting the problem and Montana approves it. A replacement oven is needed in our case which will take two to three weeks to arrive. The procedure is totally incompatible with our situation here. We will see how this can get resolved when we get back to our purchasing dealer. Originally I was told by the dealer here that they could report the problem and have the replacement oven sent to our original dealer for replacement. That is not the case according to Montana now. If my original dealer inspects the oven and finds it defective then Montana will send a replacement oven. That would require two trips to the dealer or having the RV totally out of commission for two to three weeks. Keystone hasn't thought through how this new procedure can become a total hassle for the customer.

Relative to the brake issue. I connected our TV to the 3400RL again yesterday as a test. The tech and I went on a test run. I still experienced some pull to the left on hard braking but not as severe as it was just before we got here. The tech immediately concluded that it was my truck, not the 3400RL as they had not experienced it with their dealer TV. I don't think they took the 3400RL on the road like I did. Anyway, in order to remove any doubt about my truck I took my truck to a dealer and had the truck brakes thouroughly checked out. All wheels removed, all rotors and pads inspected and also test driven. The dealer could find nothing wrong with the brakes on my truck and in fact remarked that the pads had more than 50% of their original thickness. Even with 57,000 miles on the truck. I find it interesting that this Bend brake and tire dealer did all this inspection work free of charge and I haven't purchased a damn thing from them. But purchase a $50,000 Montana and Montana won't authorize removal of the wheels to inspect the brakes on their unit. What is wrong with this picture?

I have come to the conclusion that both this local Montana Dealer and Keystone are now so paranoid about liability that I cannot depend on them to give me an honest evaluation. There just have been too many indications of a cover up in the works. This became totally clear when I presented the evidence of other brake failures as offered here on this board. The immediate stonewall response was very indicative and informative. I will have an seperate independent dealer do the inspection of the RV brakes. This has become a very tense and uncomfortable situation.

Rich, I understand why Montana would want to have the original dealer who did the initial warranty work on the slide roof repair it again. But I'm not sure the dealer did shoddy work. I watched and helped when this original warranty work was done. The dealer personnel were very meticulous in following exactly what Montana told them to do. My present observation is that the Montana directed fix will not stand up to the kind of long trips we have taken the 3400RL on this winter. And will probably remain a continuing problem as long as we own the unit. With my present attitude that won't be long.



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Old 04-06-2007, 07:24 AM   #20
richfaa
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The slide issue is also on my Service center repair list.We will see how the repair center handles that?? It is again my opinion only that campers in this price range regardless of brand are not designed for the kind of continuous use we put them to.Again these are recreational vehicles and some of us certainly use them for much more than recreation.(myself included) I could not then and can not now afford to spend the maybe 15/20K more $ to purchase a Rv designed to handle the rigors of continous use. We purchased what we could afford not what we needed and that is my fault not keystones.Annddd..tell you what..I think that for a whole lot less than the 15/20K we might have spent on a properly designed unit we can get this Montana up to standards. In the meantime it is fustrating to have these failures.
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