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06-20-2007, 01:30 AM
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#1
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Loganville
Posts: 476
M.O.C. #5314
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Firefighters
I know we have retired and working firefighters that are members of the MOC. It really hits home with the tragedy in Charleston this week. My son lives in Charleston now and I have visited there twice recently and met firefighters while there. When something like this happens it makes me realize how lucky I was to work as a firefighter for 30 years and escape major injury.
Please remember the families of these firefighters that died this week. They will need prayers from everyone.
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06-20-2007, 03:27 AM
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#2
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Montana Master
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Silver Springs
Posts: 2,873
M.O.C. #2716
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They sure have ours David. What an awful tragedy. I will never forget the night my deceased husband died. When I called 911 for him they also send the fire department and one of the firemen slipped on glare ice while trying to help. He wound up with a skull fracture. Even without fires they are put in harms way. I did find out from another firefighter later that he was out on leave for quite awhile but was able to return to work.
Helen
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06-20-2007, 04:23 AM
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#3
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Clearwater
Posts: 10,917
M.O.C. #420
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As a volunteer firefighter for over 25 years I vouch for the chances we had to take and, like you David, I never had anything even close to this happen to me personally. But in those 25 years I did partake in way too many firefighter's funeral services. It takes a very courageous, dedicated, caring individual to enter into a dangerous cituation when everyone else is fighting to get out of harms way. In my mind they are true heros but anyone of those 9 firefighter's would disagree with that hero name tag. Many firefighters do not want to be called a hero afterall they were "just doing their job'. Paid or volunteer makes no difference they all feel they have a duty to the community and are willing to put their lives on the line so others may live. Many of my non-firefighting relatives and non-firefighting friends thought we were all crazy. Crazy until the cituation arose where they needed our services.
The Charlestown firefighter's family, friends and all firefighters the world over will be in our thoughts and prayers.
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06-20-2007, 08:36 AM
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#4
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Gardnerville
Posts: 749
M.O.C. #2165
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I'm here at a firefighter's conference in Hawthorne, Nevada and didn't hear about the deaths until yesterday at lunch. Today is an off day, so I haven't been able to talk to any of the safety people to get whatever detailed info they might have. I'm know they'll be remembered in our memorial service on Saturday.
We were doing a live burn exercise yesterday using furniture and bedding as the fuels. That stuff goes up quick and hot. That just adds to the threats firefighters face with modern building materials.
Everybody please take a moment to thank them for their sacrifice.
Bob
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06-20-2007, 09:55 AM
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#5
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Grand Blanc
Posts: 2,508
M.O.C. #5965
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As a Detroit Police Officer during the 60s and 70s, I attended too many funerals for fellow coppers, including two partners, and firefighters. It is always very sad and sobering at these occasions and I still can not even begin to imagine one of this magnitude. Our thoughts and prayers are out to the families and friends of these firefighters and to those of you still working at it.
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06-20-2007, 11:58 AM
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#6
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: WARE
Posts: 393
M.O.C. #3928
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I don't know anything about firefighting but always wondered WHY firefighters have to go IN a building to put out a fire...why can't they do it from the outside?? ya I could see if there were people in there.
Maybe this is a stupid question but I am a truck driver and don't know anything about firefighting.
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06-20-2007, 04:37 PM
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#7
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Olahoma City
Posts: 1,219
M.O.C. #6054
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I pray not only for the families of those lost but the surviving firefighters as well. After the Oklahoma City Bombing we lost several good men to the mental problems and suicide. We need to remember to take care of the survivors and keep them healthy. I hope if nothing else we have learned that after Oklahoma and New York.
Lots of prayers going out tonight.
Phil
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06-20-2007, 08:37 PM
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#8
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Gardnerville
Posts: 749
M.O.C. #2165
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cmp-shooter, rescue is the first reason we enter a building. Controlling and extinguishing the fire to limit damage to the building is the next, which can also be part of the rescue operation. Salvage of undamaged or recoverable goods fits in where it is appropriate to the incident, and overhaul of the building to make sure the fire is out and hasn't extended to unsuspected areas is not quite the last. Scene investigation puts the investigators at risk as they try to determine the fire cause. Ventilating the building to control the progress of the fire to make it safer for the firefighters sometimes does the opposite if there are inherent or fire caused structural problems. More than a few times has this put firefighters inside a building when they least expected it.
These actions form a generalized set of standard orders for attacking a structure fire.
Besides, we're a little crazy, but safety is putting a rein on that to some degree. The big question on this fire is if safety was ignored in favor of the crazy approach.
Bob
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06-21-2007, 12:32 AM
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#9
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Clearwater
Posts: 10,917
M.O.C. #420
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We always referred to the exterior attack as "Surround and Drown" and it was the last ditch effort to extinguishing the fire that is either out of control or it is deemed totally unsafe to do any interior attack. In any fire "Search and Rescue" is our primary concern. Quite often when we arrive on the scene we have absolutely no idea is someone remains inside the structure. A snap decision must be made as to whether or not we enter. If a human life is at risk inside our duty is to save that life. Often there is more than one person stuck inside and at the risk of our own lives we must do everything humanly possible to get them out of harms way but we knew putting our own lives on the line was going to be possible when we joined the fire service and were willing to accept that. The fire in Charleston was, in all probability, just such an example.
Not to trivialize these deaths but this is what we are trained for. When you consider the fact that such disasters as Charleston are a rarity rather than the normal we must be doing something right.
Quite often we will pull up on a fire scene and seeing what we percieve to be a "fast knock down" we proceed with our attack and the trapped individuals are rescued and the fire extinguished. We than return to our families knowing that we did our job. BUT quite often what is initially percieved as a fast knock down becomes a raging inferno but we are already inside. It is at this point where we have to make a decision. Do we continue with the search and rescue or do we save our own butts?
I, just like the firefighters around the world, are waiting for the investigation of the Charleston fire to be completed. It will probability reveal just what went wrong. Until such a report is released I will reserve my comments.
Was it human error? I surely hope not.
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06-21-2007, 05:57 AM
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#10
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Victor
Posts: 940
M.O.C. #1709
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AMEN
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06-21-2007, 06:54 AM
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#11
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cooper
Posts: 1,230
M.O.C. #3029
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My firefighting training was not of municipal but in industrial. Our philosophy is the same as Glen's. Surround and Drown!!! There are more unknowns and danger in a hydrocarbon or chemical fire than what happens in a structure fire but the main concern is always the same, preservation of life.
When I first started working at this facility there were no sprinkler and suppression systems. Management deemed sprinkler systems to be invaluable to their assets and were installed over time. This facility was totally covered and the systems were tested monthly. The cost was irrelevant as most of it was recovered in insurance premiums and preserving equipment.
Several years back after a cost of several lives it was mandated that hotels and motels be equipped with sprinklers. There should be no exceptions to businesses and warehouses. The report I heard said this business did not have a sprinkler system installed. If one was had been installed more than likely the intensity of the fire would not have been such and these guys would still be walking the street today. They did what they were trained to do, just somewhere along the line something went wrong.
God bless them and their families.
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06-21-2007, 09:48 AM
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#12
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: WARE
Posts: 393
M.O.C. #3928
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THANKS FIRETRUCKER AND GLENN & LORAINNE...that answered my question completely, that was something that bugged me for awhile
also the question of why don't fire fighters get electrocuted hoseing down a home on fire while there is still lights on,...but I got that answered a couple of years ago. [circut breaker]
we lost I believe 6 fire fighters 20 months before 9-11 near me in Worchester,mass. YOU CAN READ THIS:
http://www.masslive.com/newsflash/ma...ylist=massnews
hope the familys are OK.
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07-04-2007, 11:57 AM
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#13
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Montana Master
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Pahrump
Posts: 2,523
M.O.C. #1081
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I have been a Career Firefighter for 31 years now. I must say that this is the best job in the world. I have seen my share of close calls with my brothers while at fires and pain and suffering in the peoples eyes I am trying to help and comfort and have been to too many Firefighters Funerals. Thankfully, my crews have all returned to the firehouse safe and intact after each of them. The tragity on Sept. 11, 2001 and at Charleston just brings this point back to me each time I roll out of the Station to help someone in their time of need. It also makes me try to make things as safe as I can for my crews. I am a Chief Officer and the safety of all of my guys and gals is always the number one thought in my head when I am running an emergency incident. I promised each of them that I will never trade a life for property!
I only ask two things from everyone in the public:
1) Please move over for us when we are responding to a call. It just might be your house or someone you know or love that we are trying to reach to help.
2) During Sept. 11th we lost 343 Firefighters & Charleston we lost 9 Firefighters......."We Must Never Forget Them & Their Families".
Sorry about getting on the "Soap Box". I am just very passionate about my job and my brothers and sisters!
Scott
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