Shower stall

[cs413]

OK, now that I am done with my rant on a/c ceiling vents, there's one more thing I need to get off my chest and that's the shower stalls in the new 05's. I don't know how the older models are but the new new ones are just a base with 2 pieces of plastic anchored to the wall with a glass enclosure. Don't get me wrong - they still made it look good but just the 2 pieces of plastic on the walls just seems to cheapen the trailer. This quality of trailer and the price, I would expect a 1 piece fiberglass stall sealed at the top with trim. The top of mine wasn't even against the wall where I could caulk it and there was a 1 inch gap in the corner. Call me crazy but isn't water pretty much the #1 enemy of an RV, and wouldn't the shower stall be a pretty good place to get water damage behind the walls? At the walk through they said they would fix it. They did - A piece of double sided tape that held until I got home - 2 whole miles. So instead of taking it back and arguing with them and not fixing the way I wanted it fixed, I did it myself. I bought some vinyl trim, built out the corner, trimmed out the entire top, and caulked it. Now it is sealed. I"m not really complaining. I'm just trying to figure out Keystone's mindset installing such a cheap unit.
If it's the money, what's a few hundred dollars more after the first 50,000? I hope in the future Keystone looks at this and makes some changes. You're probably wondering why I bought the monty if I'm so unhappy - I'm not unhappy. I bought the 3650RK and it's a beatiful unit. Montana by far is the greatest trailers on the road today and I looked at a lot of them. Please let me know if anyone else noticed the shower stall or if it's just me. Somewhere down the road I will replace it with a 1 piece fiberglass stall, but for now, I'll enjoy my Monty and not let it bother me.

[CountryGuy]

cs413,

Just a guess here, wouldn't the fiberglass weigh more than the plastic tub surround?? Weight being one of the wars of the RVer, I am gonna guess they save a pound where they can (that said in a lot of models they went to the porcelin toilet which we know weighs more than the plastic one, so figure that one out??)

You might want to do a search on MOC and in the archives and pull up some of the MANY MANY MANY discussions about showers and leaks and stuff, caulking around the bottom of the tub has not always proven to be a good thing, Steve R had delamination on the outside, and they say it was cause the Surround was caulked at the bottom and allowed a lot of moisture build up. Steve is on his way to Goshen right now, and I am guessing it would be this evening at the earliest that he will be able to get on MOC and correct my statements if they are wrong.

What I see is that one thing that will drive you crazy, like this shower surround, will not bother me at all, but something that drives me wild with angst would not even be an issue for you. Just like everything else in life, what works for you, may not work for me! That is why we have so many models of Montana, Mountaineer, etc. and so many tow vehicles to choose from. For me the shower surround is fine (I have the older version, flat walls, not the ones that look like tile). However, I am not thrilled with the quality of the faucets I got, one has already been replaced, thank you Lowes!

Carol

[DHenry]

Let us know how you plan to get a one piece shower stall through thoes small doors.

[cs413]

Good point - I guess I didn't think about that one! Guess it's time to shut up and enjoy it. It probably won't be bad at all. My biggest concern was the open top which would easily let water behind the shower allowing for potential damage. But I trimmed out and sealed up the top real good so my biggest concern should be put to rest. As far as weight goes - I don't think it would be that much more, but eveerything adds up especially when you start putting things in the storage compartments, and I am trying to keep the weight down as much as possible. Thanks for the input.

[campbud]

I too always wondered why Keystone didnt got with the 1 peice fiberglass stall. I like the way they looked on other units. I did hear someone say that they dont caulk the bottoms b/c of moisture. I haven't noticed any gaps in the top of ours, it is a different unit. I will have to check next time out. Congratulations on your new Monty!

[mazeeff]

I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that the top of the shower walls were left open in order to vent condesation that forms on the outside wall of the shower. If I recall the base of the wall is not chalked to the tub, also to allow the condesation a path into the tub.

[cs413]

Well, I'm getting really confused now. Guess I'll make a call to Keystone and see what they have to say. My problem was when they anchored the wall at one point at the top, the wall behind was not flat and it bowed the shower wall inward, thus pulling about 6" of the top of the shower wall about 1/2 - 3/4" away from the wall, leaving it wide open for any water intrusion. The fiberglass stalls have a trim ring around the entire stall and screwed to the wall. I know it's thicker material but I would think the concept is the same. I obviously am not going to pour water behind the wall, but accidents do happen and water gets flung around in such a small space. I will get Keystone's take on the subject Monday and let you know what they recommend. You make a very good point. I have just always been so paranoid about water intrusion anywhere in the trailer. The way they are constructed, it is not a cheap repair bill to replace anything in these trailers, espesially ceilings and walls.
Thanks again,
Curt

[mazeeff]

I think mine only has about 1/8 to 1/4 inch gap.

[sreigle]

I think the idea to check with Keystone to see if there is a reason it is not caulked is sound thinking. I'd recommend that. Carol mentioned we experienced delamination. On our first Montana, a 2001 2880RL we noticed the plastic surround was not caulked along the bottom. At my request our dealer caulked that area. We later had delamination on the exterior wall just outside and above the shower. Keystone paid to repair it.

We traded for this Montana at a *different* dealer. I noticed the surround is not caulked along the bottom. I asked it be caulked. The service manager said I do not want to caulk that, it is left uncaulked intentionally to allow condensation to escape, condensation caused when we shower. If we caulk that it will create moisture problems. I asked if it could cause delamination on the outside wall and he said it definitely could. So ours remains uncaulked.

I checked ours just now and it is caulked at the top but not at the bottom. As cs413 said, theirs is a newer model and the shower area is different than ours. I don't know if theirs should be caulked or not. So a call to Keystone is probably a very good idea, in my opinion. Please let us know what Keystone says.

[Trailer Trash 2]

I wrote a letter to Keystone about the shower not having cauking at the pan and the plastic sides ( Mine was leaking to the basement ) They said I could cauk it. the only problem is if you use a good sylicone and you ever have to take it apart it will probably cause damage to the pannels taking it apart and the other cauking usually will pull away from the application after it dries out then it will leak again. but I'm still working on it

[cs413]

My biggest concern was the gap and no caulking at the TOP of the walls. I wasn't thinking about the bottom. I would ASSUME(there's that word again)there is a lip on the base that is behind the bottom of the wall to prevent leakage. I would hope the engineering team at Keystone revise the drawings every new model year or during the year to address these problems. I know the 3650RK at the beginning of the 05 release had a sunken kitchen. Mine does not. It was changed already due to safety reasons. Mine is the same level as the living room. The sunken kitchen would have been pretty neat but I can see how someone could forget the step down and fall into the center island. That would probably be my luck while hitting the fridge for a snack in the middle of the night. I'll ask them also about the bottom again and see what they say this time. I'm going to post another discussion about some standard features I'm not able to find, but this is probably not the right catagory.
Curt

[kdeiss]

I also had problem at the top panel pulling away to big of a gap to calk. I used 3 small screws with plastic caps gives a finished look. I also did not like the quality in this area they should have used a more rigid panel. I also calked at the bottom only in the area that meets the metel stall first time we used the shower two years ago we had water pouring out on the floor. Both modifacations have worked well,

[cs413]

Well, I called Keystone today and I'm not sure I know any more than I did other than there is at least a 1" lip on the shower base that the wall panels fit over. So it shouldn't leak whether it's caulked or not. The guy couldn't really give me a defenite yes or no. He did say sealing the top would not be a problem. I'm not going to seal around the bottom right now, however I will check the basement after every trip to look for water leaks. I ran the shower yesterday for about 30 minutes to check for leaks and NONE down below. However it leaked pretty good around the bottom of the glass enclosure, which I expected. I had to recaulk the entire enclosure on my Holiday Rambler 10 years ago when it was new. I'm just going to keep an eye on the basement area and go from there. I also asked him why they didn't use 1 piece fiberglass stalls, but he didn't really know.
Curt

[Montana_2779]

On our walk through, we noted a fair sized gap at the top of our shower (about 1/4" off the wall going about 12" along the left top). We asked the tech to add one more of the plastic topped fasteners to close this up (done immediately). Once we got it home, I put (3) layered beads of caulk (clear) along the top to stop any water leakage. Also added caulk in all corners and along any sidewall beads that looked suspect from the factory. The only seam that does not have caulk is the one along the bottom where the sides meet the pan (as noted above, this allows moisture to drain down as necessary). After replacing our stickhouse shower walls due to moisture getting through the old grout, I will NEVER AGAIN have a near-water area or appliance (sinks, tubs, toilets, etc.) that isn't fully caulked! If condensation beats me, so be it. By gum, leaks sure won't!!

By the way, we are getting virtually zero perceptible leakage in our shower unit. The only water we've found is the light seepage we get when we open the shower door. Like Curt, we check our basement and holding areas frequently for any signs of water.

[CountryGuy]

Remember that the faucets can and have leaked under the tub, causing water to drain into the basement. We had 2 faucets that did that, the answer is to add a rubber bushing on the fittings underneath. Al did not look at the repair, so we cannot fully describe it, it was done for us at the repair facility in Goshen. We had quite a bit of water from this leak.

[Bob & Lee]

I am not sure what you mean rwo peices of plastic on the wall, mine is one peice w/shelves in the corner and the tub is sealed to the wall and loose at teh top for evaperation. works good havend seen any water on the floor or leaking outside.

[cs413]

Bob and Lee - You are right. I"ve been looking at this shower stall so hard, I didn't see that it is one piece. It's against two walls. None the less, a fiberglass stall it isn't. Putting extra anchors at the top from another post is a good idea. I would imagine the dealership surely carries them. But as far as evaporation goes, I would think if water gets behind those thin walls it's going to do a lot more damage than evaporation. I've just seen first hand what water intrusion does inside an RV if it goes unnoticed, which is why I am pretty paranoid about this subject. It gets pretty ugly and pretty expensive.
But like I said earlier, I will defenitely be checking the basement very often for signs of leaks.
And one other thing - while I was checking for leaks down under I noticed the water lines laying up against the metal framing that had been cut and was very sharp and my shower lines go up through two holes in the metal heat duct and they were very sharp with no protection. Any vibration (like traveling!) will cut into these lines and create one heck of a leak. So something to look for next time you're in the basement. I put pipe wrap around the lines next to the tubing and 2 - 1" rubber gromets on the heater duct. Worked real well. Keystone should think about protecting the water lines a little more. Very cheap fix and could save a lot of time, frustration, and money for us and them.
Thanks for all your input. I wish there was a forum like this 10 years ago when I had my TT. I have learned a lot already and haven't even had the Monty on the road yet.
Thanks again,
Curt Smith