Brake failures

[49merc]

I have been fighting an intermittent problem in my braking system for almost 3 years now. I have a Prodigy brake controller that keeps throwing failures at me and I never know when it is going to happen. It will show no connection or short or no ground and it will jump around from one to another on stay on one for awhile. About the time I think it might be wet weather its not. Or a bumpy road and it may be a smooth road. I have replace all connections more than once and I have tried wiggling things and sometimes that seems like its the problem but never is. My brake assemblies are all brand new with new magnets and wires and that didn't help. Before I rewire the entire system I was wondering if anyone has had a similar problem and it was the controller or something else. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[Chip]

I had a similar problem. Took it back to the installer and they tested and replaced the controller free of charge. No more problem. Now that is customer service!

[hunts800]

Might also look at the Dexter axles. The brake wires run INSIDE the axles. One of mine in my 2010 had worn the insulation off the wire, and was causing an intermittent short. Once wires were re-routed on the outside of the axle, problem went away. Impossible to see without pulling the wire out of the axle.

[49merc]

Drew, In my case I'll have to buy a new one as I've had mine several years so that's kind of a last resort for now.
Steve, that was going to be my next move if I didn't find out anything here. Thank you both.

[dieselguy]

I'm just thinking here ... a new P2 can be had for @$125 / free shipping. P3 a bit more, but basically easier to read display with words instead of codes and better diagnostics. Buy one and try it ... if it doesn't cure your issues, sell your old one on Craig's List for $50.00 and you're out but $75 and have a newer components. Out $75 ... How much value do you put on your time agonizing over a gremlin that either got fixed or was pared down to wiring and/or trailer components by a new controller. As mentioned earlier ... the wire run inside the axle tube would be my alternate next step.

[Ozz]

Check the ground wire. Often it is a ground with intermittent problems.

[BB_TX]

Like the others I would check those wires on the axles. The wires (at least on mine) come out holes in the axles a foot or so from the wheels. When I first saw that I thought that was a good place for the wires to rub thru and short out. So I pulled the wires slightly out of the axle and ran several turns of tape around them and pushed them back into the holes, on both sides. Just looked like a problem waiting to happen.

Plus, on one side the bare wires were laying on top of part of the suspension. I bought some small split wire loom and put around the wires hanging out in the open on both sides to protect them.

split wire loom

[Crossthread]

I have found the brake wire chaffed inside the right rear brake drum more than once. The brake actuating arm wears, or cuts the magnet wires. If you choose to remove the brake drum, look closely at the wire under the clips that secures the wires to the arm.
Another place that I have found ,is the Bargman reciever plug on the truck. Mine was two parts, sealed with an O ring. There was water and corrosion in there. Bill

[sapest]

When you say you replaced all the connections are you including the pigtail and the female connector on your TV? I had similar problems and after replacing both parts, no more problems. Our rigs about the same age, and neither connector/end looked bad.
Used Esco for the pigtail, recommended. Www.escousa.net
-Steve

[49merc]

Thanks folks. All good suggestions. The biggest problem for me is I would like to find out for sure which item is the cause and it could take quite awhile. We won't be moving again for a month and a half so what ever I do now will be quite awhile before I can check it and so on. I know the ground is good as I had already redone and checked that. The entire brake assemblies are brand new as of a month ago. So I believe I will pull the wires in the axles first and if nothing there then I will get the new controller. Then new pigtail connections and finally the rest of the wiring if it isn't fixed by then.

[Bama Camper]

49merc -
I had a similar problem when our High Country was brand new - complete loss of brakes (not just one or two wheels) and an indication by my OEM controller that there was a disconnection. The problem was intermittent, but was fairly repeatable while it was occurring. I checked everything on the 7 pin truck bumper connector, the second 7 pin connector in the truck bed, the pigtail, the j-box connections where the pigtail extends from, EVERYTHING I could get to. I even re-made the connections in the pin box junction box. Nothing changed.

Because the symptom was COMPLETE loss of brakes on all wheels simultaneously, that lead me to believe it was not a single wheel failure. I don't think the brake controller will recognize the difference between the current required for all wheel magnets to be energized and only three. So I ruled out a single wheel failure. Also, since the controller reported an open circuit (no current draw at all) and not a short (maximum current draw, which would probably blow the fuse), that lead me to believe it was a loss of a connection where all wheels were connected in parallel and not a short to ground.

Since the unit was brand new, I took it to a dealer for the warranty repair (we were on the road). I discussed what I had found with the technician, that I had eliminated everything I could get to without taking the underbelly down. But I didn't want to jeopardize my warranty by dropping the underbelly myself, so I asked him to check the COMMON connections near the first wheel. There are two - one for the +12 brake line coming from the output of the controller, and the other COMMON connection is a ground for all wheels. The technician remade those connections, and also I think a ground connection to the frame. We haven't had the problem since. I was not able to go in the shop when he was working on it, so I don't know WHICH connection was bad. He was in a hurry (as they always are) and just re-stripped the wires and replaced the crimp connection on both of those. If I understood him correctly, he also remade a ground connection to the frame from the ground wires. There was some discussion between a couple of techs as to whether the frame was ground or whether an actual negative wire returned to the junction box - but it didn't matter, it was fixed.

So, as intermittent problems go - I don't know WHICH connection was bad, but apparently one of the connections that was remade was the culprit, and the problem hasn't reoccurred for several months and about 2000 miles, so my level of confidence is fairly high that the problem was fixed.

This explanation is a long way to suggest - check the connections where all four wheel brakes come together in the underbelly. Mine was above the left front wheel (High Country model 305RL). There should be a common point where the output line (+12) from the brake controller connects to the wheel brakes, and another where there is a common ground connection. Also, check for a frame connection in the same area. I understand that some campers have series connected brakes, so there may only be three wires connected together instead of five at that point. On my camper he didn't have to drop the whole underbelly to get access to these connections - only the trailing edge for about two feet.

Good luck, hope this helps.

[clarkandsheila]

http://www.montanaowners.com/forums/...ad.php?t=61280

See My post above.

I just went through a SIMILAR problem. I Just want to emphasize that I never did see a wiring "worn" spot that I could point to and say AHA. The lack of problems afterwards was my confirmation that the wiring run through the axle was the problem. No more alarms and the brakes work.

Two things I did not mention in the above post:
-- was that before leaving home I had replaced the brakes, backing plates and all, with the 7,000# units. They had been working well after the initial wear in and then the nonesense with the alarm showed up along with the lack of braking. But that appears to be now gone.
--the wiring in the forward axle was actually quite hard to get moving out so I suspect that is where the problem lay even though I never did 'see' any damage. The wire in the rear axle pulled out with no problem.

[49merc]

Well hopefully I have found my problem. The wire in these axles is a double wire molded together. The rear axle wire had a strip that at first glance (wire was very nasty with rust and junk on it) it appeared to have bare wire but it was only the top layer of insulation stripped off. The disturbing thing was the electrical tape that had slid down the wire. Now why on earth would anyone have gone ahead and installed this wire? (I think we know) I replaced the wire anyway just to be sure and cleaned and reconnected all wires. Moving to the front axle when I pulled that wire out (again very rusty and nasty) I found a bare strip of wire about 1 inch long. This SHOULD be my problem but I won't know for sure until I take it out on the road again in about a month. Replaced that wire and cleaned connections and should be good to go. I also had replaced the entire brake assemblies before leaving home but my problem had continued. Well now I can get on to my next problem to repair.

[Crossthread]

Thanks for reporting back. I guess my wires come out this week. Bill

[clarkandsheila]

When I did mine I did NOT run the wires back through the axle.
i puchased PVC electrical conduit, 1/2", and strapped it to the axle. This way even if the insulation wears a bit, I doubt it will, there is no way to ground unless the wire insulation wears on both conductors.

I bought electrical duct seal to plug the conduit ends to keep out water.

[49merc]

Clark,
I also ran my wires out of the axle in plastic wiring loom which I strapped to the axle. Either way should work well. Your conduit would probably been the better choice tho.

[mazboy]

look at your wiring on axles, then if you can't see anything wrong, just buy a new controller. that will equal an hour of repair time.