New Ford Diesel

[hazmic]

Was wondering about the new Ford diesel engine and do you have to add a additive to it. Any one heard this. Something to do with the new diesel fuel. There is even a tank that you put this additive in. Diesel is already pricey and now we need additives for it to raise the cost.

[radio flyer]

Yes, has another tank for it. Don;t know much else.

[mlh]

hazmic
The fluid is urea. The tank holds about 7 gallons, I think. You should add it about every oil change. The new truck gets much better fuel mileage, so it will pay for its self.
Lynwood

[William H. Collier]

Here is how it works.
Bill
http://media.ford.com/images/10031/S...rtreatment.pdf

[bigmurf]

2 cycle chain saws come to mind.

[River17]

quote:Originally posted by hazmic

Was wondering about the new Ford diesel engine and do you have to add a additive to it. Any one heard this. Something to do with the new diesel fuel. There is even a tank that you put this additive in. Diesel is already pricey and now we need additives for it to raise the cost.

hazmic

The new Ford diesel engines use SCR (Selective Catalytic Reduction)technology that needs DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid) also known as urea.
Like it was stated earlier this extra cost for the DEF will be more than compensated by the increased fuel mileage. (Around 5% better fuel mileage)

[RickW]

When I was at the machine shop building the bed for my HDT last month, a brand new Pete 379 was there waiting for a cab guard. The Pete had a 3rd tank labeled DEF. It was about 30 gallons. There was also a DEF gauge on the dash. I would suspect that as more and more of these trucks start hitting the road you will see an additional pump at truck stops and other high volume salers of Diesel for the DEF.

Any ideas on the cost per gallon of the DEF?

[steves]

I asked my SIL who owns a diesel repair business, he told me all diesel manufactures (big trucks, medium and light duty) will be using the DEF technology for 2011 except for International which has opted to turn up their EGR valve technology to meet the EPA requirements. There is a trade off between the two technologies as the EGR is problematic with poorer MPG and higher engine stress because of recycling the higher gas temperatures back into the engine. With the DEF technology you will have to pay for the additional additive but will get higher MPG and will eliminate some of EGR created stress on the motors.
All the truck stops are already ramping up to carry/sell the DEF fluids. This technology has been in use overseas for quite a while and has been very successful.

[nosticks]

Yes I learned of the urea system for the 2011's from my Ford dealer, that is one of the reasons I looked all over for a left over 2010 and found one that suits last week. I was about to give up, but they found what I wanted at a companion Ford dealer and got it for me.

[bitterbrook]

My Dodge dealer said that Dodge 250's won't need the additive until 2014, FWIW.

[Trailer Trash 2]

I think all manufactures need to get together a put the right info out for all of us users.
My Dodge dealer told me that 2012 will have the same as Ford and Chevy, I glad I got one without all that extra EPA smog equiptment. Who out there remembers the first smog attachment on cars, it was called NOX they cut the return radeator hose and put this contraption that would keep the water in the engin longer to make it hotter. we sure have come a long ways sence then.
I did hear that europe has been using this new DEF technology for a while how come we are Jonny out of step now with the rest of the world. is it becaue we part out everything.

[skypilot]

Lot of information, and mis-information, out on these things. When traveling to SLC last month saw DEF in gallon containers at every stop we made -- average cost as I recall was close to $3.00 per gallon. Did not see it at the pumps as yet though but Pilot stations have a video out and a big push to get the DEF at the pumps very soon. That said, one more issue with DEF -- it freezes at about 11 degrees F; so most of the trucks have a way to heat it up. The big trucks have devices that will not allow them to move if the DEF is frozen / empty. I've not heard about what Ford or GMC have done to prevent driving when DEF is empty. They do have warnings though that you are getting low on the stuff.

[Trailer Trash 2]

quote:Originally posted by skypilot

Lot of information, and mis-information, out on these things. When traveling to SLC last month saw DEF in gallon containers at every stop we made -- average cost as I recall was close to $3.00 per gallon. Did not see it at the pumps as yet though but Pilot stations have a video out and a big push to get the DEF at the pumps very soon. That said, one more issue with DEF -- it freezes at about 11 degrees F; so most of the trucks have a way to heat it up. The big trucks have devices that will not allow them to move if the DEF is frozen / empty. I've not heard about what Ford or GMC have done to prevent driving when DEF is empty. They do have warnings though that you are getting low on the stuff.

Wow I'm sure glad I dont have to worry about that I have enugh to worry about like Re Gen which I have yet to see on my pannel.

[mlh]

skypilot
I think both Ford and Chevy will warn you 3 times when the urea tank is getting low then go into limp home mode, 25 MPH. You cant replace the urea with anything else, say water. For the Ford Spartan Diesel Technology will have a tuner to get rid of both the DPF and the urea in about 2 weeks. If you ever drove a truck with 580+ HP you wont go back to stock. Guaranteed.

[skypilot]

Stopped by Dodge dealership last night to schedule my Jeep for LOF and talked to service guys for a few minutes. Found out that the DEF has a very limited shelf life (6 months was mentioned) and that they are telling the ones driving chassis cabs (they went DEF this year - 2500 / 3500 PUs go DEF next year) to only fill their DEF tanks half way to ensure the fluid is fresher. Again, just came out so no real-life history -- just going from literature so will be interesting to see how this stuff really works out in our Tow Vehicles vs. commercial over-the-road haulers.

mlh: 580 HP -- hmmmm -- can not even imagine the trouble that could get me into .

[scattershot]

Those new trucks are sure nice, but I think I'll keep my 10 year old 7.3 Superduty. Never had a problem with it in 115,000 miles.

[ExPatNW]

The previous Ford SD Diesel engine reportedly got poor MPG because of the EPA emissions constraints forced them to make trade-offs for emissions and not for MPG.
The new engine, using the UREA approach gets us back to better MPG and still meets the EPA requirements, which for me is pretty cool. I will be happy not to pollute so much. Having 2 kids, I want to make sure there is some air left for them to breathe!
So when Ford start doing 0% APR on the 2011 SDs I am there, everything I have read so far say’s it’s an awesome truck. Been very happy with my 2008 F350, but the MPG does suck.

[richfaa]

I was quoted 58K sticker for a 2011 identical to the one in my sig and 52K after discounts. I am not buying as I beleive not the MPG claims.They said the same things about the 6.4l. We will wait till the real results are in.. We are happy with the 08 and 10/11 towing this 3400 anchor.Lets see how much better the 6.7 does.

[camper4]

I'm glad I am not in the market for a new truck right now. Just like when cars got de-polluted in the early 70's, these new systems will have problems for a couple of years. Even though they have been in use in Europe for a few years, they will have some bugs to work out here.
I don't think the imported car diesels use urea. They get great fuel economy.

[skypilot]

The local Ford dealer has (had) an F250 King Ranch, sticker was in the low 60K range. Don't know if they have a lot of wiggle room (I'm confident they do but not associated with them so can't really say). Regardless, even with the DEF, they still have the diesel particulate filter with its 'regeneration cycles' to contend with -- these take up to several gallons of diesel each time they regenerate and that doesn't help get you down the road. I'm with Rich here all the way -- if you don't need a truck right now, it is the time to wait and see just what these new ones from Ford and GMC actually get in the real world. That said,...

Scattershot -- that 7.3L is just about broken in -- no need to trade it now -- a couple of more thousand miles and it will be in its prime ....