New unit

[Gregg Varner]

So bought my new 305RL about a month ago. The walkthrough did not go well they told me mainly because it hadn't been plugged in very long. Took delivery. Got it home checking everything: air conditioner not cooling, no hot water as well as other things. Got it back to the dealer a week ago Friday have not heard a word, over a week now. Left messages sent emails. I am extremely frustrated and not exactly sure what to do at this point. I don't want to be and SOB but geez I've got a brand new unit it's a month old and I can't use it. And no word from the dealer. To make matters worse when I called last Friday that would have been a week the service department said I should not expect a call back from the service technician because they were having an event, really? I have a very special trip planned from my wife's birthday in about 4 and a 1/2 weeks and I feel pretty sure I'm not gonna have my brand new unit to take her on this trip.

[Eagleback]

For me it would be a call to keystone, BBB and trailer life.

[Gregg Varner]

Thank you

[mazboy]

get to the dealer and deal with the manager. sorry but that is the only QUICK way at this point.

[Gregg Varner]

Kind of thinking that as well, I think I will call today and make an appointment to meet with the GM and go up tomorrow so I can be face-to-face. I think it's more effective to be face-to-face than on the phone. Thanks

[rgparker57]

Gregg and Nancy.. We also purchased a new Montana fifth wheel.. Had so many problems on first trip had to cut short.. Will not bore you with the issues, but it is now a safety issue, had to replace the rear axle tires because the axle lost camber. This is the information from the servicing dealer. .They want to replace both axles.. Had 37 other issues.. Meeting with an inspector from Keystone tomorrow Aug 21 in Southern California.. If you look up on google problems with Keystone Montana High Country and Montana you will be shocked.. Would like to let you know how our inspection comes out tomorrow.. Do not feel safe in this NEW Montana fifth wheel any longer. This is our third new Fifth wheel in the last 20 years. What a shame.. Good Luck

[AZ Traveler]

Gregg,

First, welcome to the forum!

A little late for you, but one of the lessons for others considering a new purchase. Do not pay or sign for delivery until the walk through is completed and issues are worked off. Do not be afraid to walk away. You will generally get better service pre-delivery than after you take it.

[Bierp]

Originally Posted by AZ Traveler

Gregg,

First, welcome to the forum!

A little late for you, but one of the lessons for others considering a new purchase. Do not pay or sign for delivery until the walk through is completed and issues are worked off. Do not be afraid to walk away. You will generally get better service pre-delivery than after you take it.

Agree completely. We actually spent 2 days on our PDI. Had to book a 2nd night in the hotel, but was worth it. They knew I wasn't going to take any BS and it saved me a lot of pain. (Sadly, not ALL of the pain, but that's RV life.)

Shame that you are having to deal with this, but I agree with the above comments. Get there in person, get in the manager's face and show up daily if needed. Maintenance at any dealer is a secondary service and they definitely respond to the squeaky wheel. If you only call weekly they know it must not be that important and they'll work on other stuff. (Usually prep/PDI for new sales.)

Be the squeaky wheel.

Good luck!

[richfaa]

Call the Keystone service center now 866 425 4369. Have your RV VIN number ready. Explain as calmly as you can your. experience.

[BuilderBob]

First of all welcome to the MOC from Washington St! You should of done the PDI and maid sure everything worked before you signed any paper work and taken the unit off the lot I would go see if the have even looked at it. And then call Keystone and start a file.

[jimandlaurie]

Ditto on welcoming you to MOC....hope you get the new rig fixed up.
Several folks already given good advice on dealing with the problems.
A great bunch here at MOC.

[Rondo]

What is this dealers name so we know not to buy or go to them for service?
The advise to contact Keystone Customer Service is good advise. As was said have your VIN # handy and be as calm as possible when you explain the situation to the Customer Service Rep. They will advise you on what to do and give you a file number because they will be opening a file on your unit and your dealer. You will get more satisfaction from them if you do not yell or anything like that when talking to the Rep. Good luck and let us know what you come up with both with the Keystone Customer Service and with you dealer.

[1retired06]

Dealers are very cooperative during the sale but attitudes often change once you take delivery and pull out. Hope all gets resolved.

[DQDick]

Start at the Keystone Customer service and find out if the dealer has even opened a file. If they haven't, Keystone won't pay them for warranty work so if they haven't called Keystone nothing is happening. If they haven't, ask Keystone to arrange an appointment for you with another dealer.

[tooth ferry]

Do any of you think that all problems will always be found during PDIs. I would not have known a lot of the things to look for in doing a PDI. Please don't automatically blame the buyer for not finding all problems.. Everyone may not be as experienced or as smart as you.

[AZ Traveler]

Originally Posted by tooth ferry

Do any of you think that all problems will always be found during PDIs. I would not have known a lot of the things to look for in doing a PDI. Please don't automatically blame the buyer for not finding all problems.. Everyone may not be as experienced or as smart as you.

You are absolutely correct, you will not find all issues on a PDI and some may not show up for some time.

You do want to go over all the systems on your PDI to understand how they work and make sure your unit is functioning. You will need more than a couple of hours to do this. If its too warm to run the heater have them run the a/c to get it cold enough to run the heater. There is a way to test pretty much everything.

Bring someone else to help you take notes and bring another set of eyes. A good dealer will let you stay on their lot for a night to check out things and develop questions before you pay or sign.

No one is trying to blame the buyer but instead make them smarter before writing that check.

[h2ojocky]

Another option is to call Keystone and start a ticket. Ask them about using a mobile RV repair. Pick up your trailer and post your problems on this forum and see how the folks on this forum can help. Use your trailer for your wife's birthday. You have a 1 year warranty so if you can't get things fixed yourself or with a mobile tech then bring it to the dealer after your trip. I have read on this forum several people have had there trailer in the shop for over a month.

[h2ojocky]

Here is a PDI that is posted by phillyg

I used the following list. Takes about three hours to do a proper PDI.

TOOLS:
• Sweat towel
• Flashlight
• Air gauge
• Tools for hitch
• Torque wrench
• Phillips and flat blade screwdrivers
• Square bit driver
• Channel locks or pliers
• Outlet tester
• Multimeter
• Creeper
• Pen and clipboard
TELL LD:
• Doing an extensive PDI
• Provide copy of checklist
• Unhook shore power, water, and sewer
• Ask for delivery invoice
OUTSIDE WALK AROUND:
• Roof Sealing & Fixtures
o inspect ladder and mounting points
o climb on the roof and inspect all seams, gaskets and any other place that the roof material has been cut or holes drilled, and caulking is intact
o check that all shrouds & covers are intact, unbroken and properly seated on the roof.
o check closely around air conditioners, vents, antennas, sewer vents, and side seams. Look for any signs of bubbles (large and small), delamination, foreign objects or protruding screw or nail heads under the membrane (if a rubber roof)

• Windows

o Check closely inside and out around each window to make sure it has been properly aligned and sealed.
#8195;
• Entry Doors

o check the gasket used on all doors for proper adhesive and coverage. Look closely at the door from the inside and confirm that it sits flush against the inside of the doorjamb. Confirm that each key works in the appropriate lock. The main door should open & close smoothly and lock without undue effort. Check that the screen door opens smoothly alone and locks to the main door without any extra effort

• Baggage Compartments

o open and close each door checking for alignment and gasketing. Confirm that each key works in the appropriate lock. All hinges should be tight and secure and the latches should hold the door tightly closed and still be easy to open. Look for any signs of moisture that might indicate rain leakage. Verify that compartment lighting (if fitted) works properly. Any gas cylinders used for keeping to door open should be properly installed so as not to interfere with items stored in the compartment. If clamp-type door hold-opens are used, make sure they are present and hold the door correctly.

• Sewer, Fresh Water and other outside Connections

o Inspect to ensure nothing is broken or deformed. If appropriate at this time, make sure you understand how each valve or fitting works. Understand the proper function of the black and gray water valves and proper markings. If tank flushing is installed, understand how it operates. Understand where the low point drains are for the fresh water system. Pull, push or turn all valves.
o Understand and operate the winterizing by-pass plumbing
o Telephone & Cable TV Connections. Find and understand the telephone and cable connections. Make sure a weather cap is present for each connector and that connectors are properly identified & mounting plates are properly sealed.

• Propane. If the tank(s) are contained in a compartment, there should be no possible way for propane to enter into the RV or any other compartment. Understand how the regulator works and how it switches between cylinders. Confirm that a leak test has been performed on both pigtails between the tanks and regulator and the rest of the system. Locate and understand the operation of the main shut off valve (if any).

• Batteries. Check the battery box to verify both batteries installed, box is ventilated and that any compartment slide mechanisms work properly. Verify that no battery cables are rubbing on any part of the frame because that will eventually end up with a short circuit and possible fire. Understand the battery types provided and how to maintain them. Check battery charge with multimeter.

• Paint, decals & siding. Carefully check the paint finish and decals. Site down the side of the unit to check for bumps or depressions in the siding. Divide each side of the unit into 2, 3 or 4 sections and inspect for siding issues: color variations, dents or irregularities. Do the same for the ends of the unit Look at places where vinyl film is used to make sure it is free of any air bubbles. Check ends of any decals for uniformity or "mistakes" that may have gouged the siding. Look closely where masking tape was used for paint graphics to make sure there is no over-spray. Carefully check for surface smoothness and any place when paint coverage is marginal or where there are bubbles.

• Tires and Wheels

o Closely inspect the tires and wheels and understand the proper inflation pressure and load rating.
o Verify the torque of the lug nuts or have the PDI person do it while you watch. Find out the proper jacking point for the trailer and what kind of jack to use. Determine if your tow vehicle lug nut wrench will fit the lug nuts on the trailer or if another size is necessary
o Check each tire pressure
o Check the condition & pressure of the spare tire. Understand how the carrier works if it is the fold-down type.

• Awnings. Extend and retract each awning paying particular attention to how the awning is locked in the retracted position. Make sure all springs, locks and supports work well and are properly aligned. Wiggle the mounting points for the support arms to get a feeling for how solidly they are mounted to the body.
#8195;
• Chassis

o Inspect all air and/or hydraulic lines, wiring, shock absorber attachments, and in general every place that a wire or pipe could rub against something that could cause a problem later. All wiring and piping should be properly fastened
o Inspect axles, confirm their rating
o Inspect springs, shackles and all bolts

• 6-Point Leveling. Have LD show operation of system. Check each jack and master hydraulics system for leaks. Operate hookup recall.

• Slide Outs

o Have LD show operation of all slides
o Check all slide seals retracted and extended, inside and out. You should not be able to find any places where you can see light or detect airflow. Use a flashlight to look into dark corners. Understand the mechanism that extends and retracts each slide.
o Operate each slide several times and understand any restrictions on operation, including places where slides might hit open cabinet doors or other obstructions that should be stored for travel.
o Understand the manual retraction process and actually perform the retraction as if the automatic mechanism had failed. Look for proper alignment of any wheels that may ride on carpet or other flooring, to insure proper clearance. Understand any locking mechanisms that are used to hold the top of the slide out tight against the top of the RV.

INSIDE FIT AND FINISH:

• Cabinets

o Inspect & open all cabinets to insure that all the hinges and latches work well. Pull each drawer out to its stop, return it closed and then try to open it like road vibration might do.
o Look inside cabinets for water leaks and that all the wiring and pipes are well fastened.
o Inspect the linings (if any) to insure they are fastened securely. Run your hand along all edges, front & back to check for delamination or loose edges on molding or vinyl wraps.

• Molding and Trim. Inspect all moldings and trim on walls, ceiling, doors and furniture for looseness or sloppiness in assembly

• Lighting. Operate every light switch and observe its function. Use the monitor panel to check battery levels. Understand and verify any battery disconnect switches. (at this point, only 12V lighting can be tested, as the unit is NOT connected to shore power yet)

• Refrigerator. Ensure fridge is operating on 12v power source thru inverter/converter/ charger.

• Closets. Open and close all closet doors checking for free operation and proper alignment. Hanger rods should be properly fastened and secure. Check out the lighting that is provided and any switches that are used.

• Furniture

o Examine every piece of furniture to check for construction, upholstery, pattern and cloth matching. Extend sofa beds, looking for proper operation, alignment and all cushions.
o Operate recliner
o Blinds. Operate each blind and check for alignment. Look at all valances and trim to be sure they are secured.
o Counter Tops. Inspect all counter tops for alignment and fastening. Make sure that any trim pieces that should be there are in fact tight. Check for caulking quality everywhere there may be water, especially edges near a sink. Check the installation of sinks and faucets.

• Windows - Open and close every window and operate the latches. Pay particular attention to the two safety egress windows or emergency windows and make sure they operate smoothly & easily.

• Floor Coverings - Inspect carpet and other floor coverings in all corners to insure that they have been properly fastened down. Check areas that slide outs may roll over for pulled threads, cuts or other problems. Check closely for gouges or cuts in linoleum tile

• Wall Coverings - Check to make sure that all the wall coverings actually cover and join properly. Look for any discoloration or patch jobs that may cover hidden problems. Try to find any places where it is not perfect since now is the time to get it fixed while matching patterns are in stock.

OPERATIONAL TEST OF ALL HOUSE SYSTEMS:

• Shore Power Systems
o Now is the time to connect up to shore power. Pull out all of the electric cord, confirm the length and inspect the plug for proper attachment. Verify if one or two outside connections. Inside the unit, check any 110V lighting, switches and outlets for proper wiring/polarity
o Find the GFI-protected outlets and test using the push button. Understand which receptacles "downstream" from the GFI are protected. Any electrical problems here should be corrected immediately.
o Converter - Confirm the operation of the inverter/converter/charger that is installed. Turn on several interior lights to create a load for the converter and confirm no excessive converter noise or vibration. Have the PDI person explain the operation of the converter, the AC circuit breakers and the DC fuses. Make sure that there is a written list of the loads connected to each.
o Residential Fridge - Check 120v residential fridge for operation, including water for ice maker, and proper mounting brackets are installed.
o Water Pump - Your PDI person should have filled the fresh water tank, so now you can test the function of the water pump. After turning it on, you should hear it pump for several seconds, even up to a minute to create enough pressure in the system. If the pump does not shut off, then there is a problem. Run water in the kitchen and bathroom sink and notice that the pump will come back on until proper water pressure is restored. Now is the time to fix a noisy pump if it is vibrating or making any irritating sounds.
o City Water System - Turn off the pump, connect up to city water (use a regulator if overly high pressure is suspected) and confirm that the connection works correctly. Look for leaks under sinks, toilet and shower. Confirm the operation of all fixtures.
o Tankage - Re-fill the fresh water tank if necessary and run water into the gray tank to verify the gauge reading and that there are no leaks. Filling the gray tank until water comes up in the shower will make it easier to find leaks inside & out. Do the same thing to the black water tank, including filling so that water comes up inside the toilet. Check for leaks (if the toilet is installed correctly, there will be no leaks!) You can fill the black water tank by using the tank flushing system (if fitted), by using a garden hose adapter for the sewer connection through a backflow preventer. Check the gauges for accuracy while you are filling. Drain the gray and black water tanks using the sewer hose.
o Water Heater - Try the water heater on propane first. A few seconds after you turn it on, you should hear the click of the igniter and the small pop when the burner lights. The red light should stay on until that process happens. If it does not ignite, then there is a problem. Turn on the AC element in the water heater (if connected) and confirm operation. Make sure you know the location of the electrical switch at the water heater and the correct operation of the interior switch. Confirm that hot (or warm water depending on how long the water heater has been on) comes out of the hot tap at the various sinks.
o Furnace – Have LD explain thermostat operation for heating and HVAC. Turn the furnace on and set a temperature demand that is at least 10 degrees hotter than ambient temperature. In about 30 seconds, you should hear the furnace fans come on. Shortly thereafter you should hear the click of the igniter and the sound of the burner. Let the furnace blow and you should get hot air at about 110 degrees coming out of all vents. Check each one. Now turn the furnace down and the hot air will gradually turn cooler and the fans will eventually stop after the furnace has cooled sufficiently.
o Air Conditioners - Some air conditioners also have a heat strip or heat pump feature so now is the time to verify these functions. Turn on the air conditioner. After a couple of minutes, cool air, 20 degrees cooler than ambient, should be coming out of the registers. If you unit has ducting in the ceiling, make sure a good airflow comes out of each register. Learn how to clean the filters at this time.
o Determine where tank heaters are located and how they operate.
o Propane and Carbon Monoxide Alarms & Smoke Detector- Have LD use gas sampler to be sprayed at the alarm to test its operation. Have them perform this test while you watch and learn how the alarms work. Confirm that there is a new battery in the Smoke Detector (write the date on it for reference) Activate the test button to check operation of the smoke detector. Understand how to turn it off.
#8195;
o TV VCR Antenna and Switching - Review and understand the switching system that allows the selection of viewing channel on the front and rear TV. Raise the TV UHF/VHF antenna and learn how to turn on the amplifier and the DC outlet. Activate the control on the front TV that scans for local stations. Learn how to rotate the antenna to maximize the quality of the picture.
o Roof Air Vents - Test the operation of kitchen and bathroom air vents making sure they open and turn on properly (if powered). Verify that they retract and close tightly. Check any other vents for proper operation.
o Microwave - Put a cup of cold water in the microwave and set the timer for 5 minutes. The water in the cup should boil in less than 5 minutes. Make sure there are no unusual sounds coming from the Microwave.
o Propane Stove - Turn on one burner of the stovetop while the AC's and Microwave are running and the automatic igniters should cause a strong spark to light the burner. Turn on the other burners to verify that there is enough propane flow to operate the refrigerator, water heater and all the burners. If everything is OK, turn off the burners on the stove. If your unit has an oven, then understand how the pilot is lit and verify its operation now. Note: Sometimes the burner igniters interfere with the operation of the thermostats for the roof AC. This is the time to find this problem.
o Connect tow vehicle to check electric brakes, pull emergency cut-off to ensure it’s working
o Check all outside 12v running lights, including brake lights
o Have LD instruct about rear view camera and operation

ACCEPTANCE:

• If PDI fails in whole, discuss with LD possible solutions/cancellation.
• If PDI fails in part, and failures can be resolved within 24 hours, arrange for re-inspection time and date. If failures cannot be resolved within 24 hours, but unit is “liveable” until it can be returned to LD for service, negotiate date and time for return, and obtain LD written agreement of anticipated repairs.
• When you are satisfied sign the acceptance/finance papers
__________________

[Beau2010]

While it is now too late to recind the sale, you can still make known this sorry excuse for a dealer's name and location so others can avoid him. I would also take out an ad in the local paper and contact a local tv station that helps out with consumer complaints. Just keep in mind that truth is a complete defense to any claims of slander/libel.

[CarWin]

PLEASE do tell us the name and location of this particular dealer so others can avoid having the same grief as you are having with them. Word of mouth and this forum will help spread the word!