2013 3402 Big sky report

[Montana Sky]

Rich, maybe you should trade this one back in and get a new Big Sky...then be sure to stand at the factory during the build process. You can be the quality control as your coach rolls down the line. I can only image how frustrated you must be.

[Emmel]

Rich, frustrated, I'd be tickled pink if I only had .1% wrong with my unit!

[Grey Nomads]

Have had our Big Sky for a year now. We can't take a vaction without something falling apart or not working. Quality control needs some improvement.

[richfaa]

Dave..It would take a couple of weeks or maybe never to get off the line. I would not say I am frustrated because in the back of my mind I expected these stupid little things. I am disappointed and p%^^$d. We have over 1K miles and several trips on the road with the new Big sky and nothing has failed or fell off..other than the toilet seat..another stupid thing. We have NO major problems.I am nit picking,These are all stupid workmanship issues and I will nit pick every one of them.we will have a chat with Montana at the fall rally. You first Steve.

Steve we have been following your misadventures on FB and it is unbelievable. You are less patient that I am and I do not know how you are able to control yourself.

[t1mrtork]

Rich and Helen, I am sorry to hear of your problems. And somewhat disappointed to learn of more manufacturing problems. We all know that these happen even to the higher end units, but it still frustrating. I have not posted here for some time but I do check in and read when I can. Our unit is a 2004 3400 and honestly we have not had any issues other than a seal replacement on the bedroom when we purchased it new in 04. I just put a new water heater high side thermostat and wall thermostat but that is the extent of our repairs. We do not use it as much as you two do but we have used ours and did full time in it for 1 1/2 years solid while our house was remodeled. We have been extremely happy with our unit and would not change a thing. We look at the new ones from time to time and have not liked some of the things they have lost from the 04 unit. Some of the storage and lack of shelves in the closet next to the bed and shower in a big one as that one is my clothes closet and ours has 4 shelves. As we consider a new unit at some time these build issues are disheartening. I hope you can get these resolved to your satisfaction. But more importantly we should not have to.

[3fortheroad]

[quote]quote:Originally posted by Hooker

quote:Originally posted by bighornram

Why? How much skill does it really require to assemble these things? I have no special training and I have had to fix many things that were put together with NO love. This is a motivational issue. Keystone needs to fix that. The product is good.

Having been a manager of a company that employed people at the lower end of the pay scale, I can tell you that what we are talking about is money, not necessarily skill. If you pay an employee $25/hour you will get more and a better job from that person than a $10/hour person. If you switch people and pay the $25/hour person $10/hour, and the $10/hour person $25/hour...you'll get the same result...the $25/hour person does a better job. The only thing 99% of these people want to do is put in thier xx hours and get their xx dollars, and go home, that's it. You want to motivate them, give them more money. As one of my favorite talk show hosts says, "Follow the money!"
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I don't know how it is today, the RV manufactures use too pay bonuses for product out the door. It is quanity not quallity that seems to motivate the industry.

[richfaa]

The assembly line methods have not changed since we began touring plants in 2004. That is not a criticism but a observation. Most here would not mention the little things that I talk about in our new big sky but fix them on their own. That is one of the problems,These little quality issues need to be talked about and brought to the attention on the manufacturer. We spoke to a tech rep at the service center who said she had not head of sat cable problems yet there are several post here on the subject..That is not right. We have already spent several hours trouble shooting or repairing quality issues.That is not right. The product is a good one.The workmanship in building them is not.

[richfaa]

Just a update.We report all the little things that are not right because we believe they need to be reported both here and to Keystone which we do.
Truth is we have not found a single major problem with the 3402 Big sky. The satellite issue is the biggest problem found and even that is a minor miss lableing or improper wiring issue that should not have happened.
This unit is well built and the quality is far better than our 06 3400.There is room for improvement and as long as I own a Montana we do not let uo on Keystone.
We have a appointment at the sevice center before the fall rally and the sat issue will be taken care of.

[Hooker]

You guys look pretty good...considering your picture is dated June 9, 2025.

[Parts Ed]

It is all that working at Disney, it just keeps them young looking!!!!

[richfaa]

I do not know how to get that out of the picture.

[mlh]

I have a small read tiny, company. We sell to retail customers. If nobody ever reports a problem you have no idea you have a problem. If you don't know you have problem you can't correct it. You do a manufacturer a favor by reporting problems.
Lynwood

[DQDick]

X2 on that. In addition to knowing we did something wrong the chance to make it right is golden. If you never hear about the problem the customer will tell at least 10 people all of whom get a bad impression of our company. We all make mistakes. If we make it more than right, most customers will also tell the same 10 people only this time some of them will become customers.

[richfaa]

Which is why these issues should be reported to keystone instead of not saying anything.If we all reported every workmanship issue it just may get better.
Hence My stubbornness in saying Keystone will make the sat cabling system work like it should. I will not fix it.If a workman wired or labeled mine wrong how many more did he do during that day. Maybe he does not even know he is doing it wrong.I want keeystone to know it was wrong and find out why it was wrong.

[grayghost03]

The dealer is the legal representative of Keystone, provide you purchase from a Keystone dealer, which I assumed you did. When a trailer is returned for work, be it warranty or out of warranty, the Keystone dealer issues a work order, which if it is over a certain amount has to be approved by Keystone. A copy of the work order is faxed to Keystone(this applies to all work orders no matter how small). I was at the dealership today and ask how it worked. So when Keystone tells you they have not heard of a problem, yet we know that a authorized dealer worked on said problem, such as Riches and others cable problems. Keystone has been informed, most likely numerous times via work order and of course compensation to the dealers for warranty work. This is how it was explained to me this afternoon, which really sounds right, if the dealer is to be paid for work performed on Keystones behalf.

[Bigboomer]

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

Which is why these issues should be reported to keystone instead of not saying anything.If we all reported every workmanship issue it just may get better.
Hence My stubbornness in saying Keystone will make the sat cabling system work like it should. I will not fix it.If a workman wired or labeled mine wrong how many more did he do during that day. Maybe he does not even know he is doing it wrong.I want keeystone to know it was wrong and find out why it was wrong.

Rich,

That is one heck of a nice rig, but I am sure the new picture does not do it justice. Agree with you whole heartly on holding Keystone/ Montana accountable because how are they going to learn to taek responsibility for their own issues (wait, almost started to sound like a parent there...)

Good Luck and hope to see you on the road one day!

Les

[richfaa]

quote:Originally posted by grayghost03

The dealer is the legal representative of Keystone, provide you purchase from a Keystone dealer, which I assumed you did. When a trailer is returned for work, be it warranty or out of warranty, the Keystone dealer issues a work order, which if it is over a certain amount has to be approved by Keystone. A copy of the work order is faxed to Keystone(this applies to all work orders no matter how small). I was at the dealership today and ask how it worked. So when Keystone tells you they have not heard of a problem, yet we know that a authorized dealer worked on said problem, such as Riches and others cable problems. Keystone has been informed, most likely numerous times via work order and of course compensation to the dealers for warranty work. This is how it was explained to me this afternoon, which really sounds right, if the dealer is to be paid for work performed on Keystones behalf.

That sounds about right. We have also seen it from the other side at the service center where the work orders come into Keystone and we have a couple of those dealers work orders on file.

You should have a copy of that workorder from the dealer to see exactly what he sent to Keystone.

You would think that Keystone would compile a date base from those warranty work orders and if they do what do they do with it..Does it get to the tech reps??? Keystone normally only pays for in warranty repairs. If you call the service center and give them your VIN they can tell you what work that was reported to Keystone has been done.

If it is warranty work Keystone should have a record of it as they approve and pay for it. What they do with that "Data" is a question to be asked.
The sat cables issue may be a new one and not enough data has been collected.

The service center rep had information on what could be wrong with the cable set up but nothing specific to the new 2013.

The tech rep only has the information provided to them. It could be the old organizational condition of one department not sharing information with another.Again questions to be asked.

We have inquired about a up to date print and found that the one dated 2010 is the latest that Keystone HAS although maybe not the latest.They are following up on that.

That work is apparently done by a vendor and installed by workers on the line.

As we find weakness in the syetem we should report that weaknes to Keystone. We discuss it in depth here on the forum.Why not let keystone know what is not working in the system???

[grayghost03]

I agree with Rich, you have to get the message up the chain. But I am afraid the message has been received, and a cost analysis is done, outcome being they have a waiting list for many of their models, why increase manufacturing cost, which will increase retail cost or a cut to the bottom line. They will make a change in poor workmanship practices when the can no longer sell out their current production. But we need to keep pushing, so they understand that, that day may come a lot sooner then later.

[richfaa]

The top keystone reps are at the fall rally and that is then time to let them know what we feel is not working.Improving workmanship on a assembly line is a costly procedure and the organization has got to know that that increased cost will pay off. We can see in this 2013 3402 improvements in workmanship over our 06 3400 and many of those improvements were suggested by MOC members .There is a long way to go.

[Emmel]

Rich, I just want you to schedual my unit into the service center, I know you'll get it fixed!