Pin Weight - Montana Owners Club

Mudchief · 02-08-2007, 06:35 AM

This has been beat to death, however I would like to ask how many of you have seen or know of someone that has had a truck break because of too much pin weight? How many trucks with a 5th wheel attached have you seen sitting on the side of the road with the rear axel broke in half? How many accidents where people have said it happen because of too much pin weight.

Dano · 02-08-2007, 07:41 AM

Well That depends on the truck, Dodge I would say zero. The other two might be A little more. LOL. I just could'nt hold back.

ols1932 · 02-08-2007, 08:43 AM

Oh, oh, is this going to turn into a Dodge vs. Ford vs. GM discussion? LOL

I've never heard of ANY truck breaking a rear axle because of the pin weight of a 5er. I don't know how you can get too much weight on the pin. You can exceed the manufacturer's rating but I believe there is not enough room to put in the front end unless the cargo was all made of lead.

Orv

jrlepin · 02-08-2007, 09:07 AM

This is a very outdated example, but in 1969, I experienced a 1967 Dodge pickup axle breakage due to an overweight trailer pin. I currently have a 3400 RL with a pin weight of 2300 lbs on a Ford 1 ton. But I use air bags and additional springs (they were originaly installed to carry a two ton camper).

Jim

bsmeaton · 02-08-2007, 09:34 AM

Jim,

Why would you have a concern with 2,300 lb pin weight? Your dually should have a payload of around 5,400 lbs.

Montana Sky · 02-08-2007, 10:20 AM

I have only seen one truck have damage done due to payload. It happened to be a GMC. He broke the leaf springs as he had way too much gravel dumped in the bed of his truck. I am guessing he had 6k to 7k pounds in the bed of that old 2500. When he got home with that load, you could just tell he was scared out of his mind. Said he had a hard time stopping and steering...Ya think??

mailmanguy · 02-08-2007, 10:39 AM

I haven't seen any axles break, but if I may add to this, I was wondering if any had seen the fifth wheel hitch itself "fold" under too much weight? My hitch has a limit of 4,000 lbs vertical (pin) weight - and earlier when Brad wrote about his pin weight (which he later corrected) being 3100 plus pounds - I was getting a little nervous.

Chip · 02-08-2007, 11:02 AM

I saw a pickup with racks for pulpwood that broke in half. Of course it was old and was rusted pretty good.

I have been investigating this somewhat to determine when I will upgrade my truck. Anyway I found the stock 2500HD GM product has 6800 lb axles. On the D/A they put the one ton axle in rated for 11000 lbs. The frames and brakes are the same

If this is true then GM has quite a bit of safety margine.

The first number I saw at the dealer in a special book listing many parts with capacities. The second was verbal.

I am still studying this but it does look like the springs and tires are the week point on the 2500HD, D/A.

rickety · 02-08-2007, 11:42 AM

Yep, beat to death.

Cat320 · 02-08-2007, 01:07 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by bsmeaton

Jim,

Why would you have a concern with 2,300 lb pin weight? Your dually should have a payload of around 5,400 lbs.

Brad...you've been reading those brochures again, you know they are greatly inflated. The cargo capacity noted on the left rear door sticker is the only one that counts.

bsmeaton · 02-08-2007, 01:13 PM

Bert,

Ya - I did look in the brochure, but I didn't have access to Jim's door - hahaaha

keham · 02-08-2007, 01:29 PM

I would be more concerned about how they actually mounted the hitch rails to the truck. (all bolts to frame. not just one on each side of each rail. And the other bolts just to the bed.

Have seen that a lot. made my dealer add biger frame brackes so all bolts for the rails, go to the frame brackets.

ken

sreigle · 02-08-2007, 02:01 PM

You asked who has seen any broken or damaged trucks because of too much pinweight.

I have never seen any of the things you asked about.

Chip, same story on the Ford. The F250 has the same axle, bearings, brakes, even tires as the F350, right down to the same part numbers. The difference is the F350 has one more leaf in its standard springs and in the F250 that extra leaf is an option. I believe it's the same situation on GM. Add a leaf or air bags and you have the equivalent springing.

exav8tr · 02-08-2007, 03:51 PM

Steve, That is what I was told for my 05 2500. SO, I added another spring. The shop that did it (one of the oldest in Anchorage), told me it would increase actual capacity by 1000 lbs. I realize it doesn't change my official rating, but a safety measure just the same....

Wrenchtraveller · 02-09-2007, 01:10 AM

I have never seen damage from an overloaded pickup but in 05 Ford went to an 18" tire on the F350.
This tire is rated higher than the 17" F250 tire. I am sure the 18" rims just bolt on but I don't think the 18" are an option on the F250. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

If one had to buy the 18" rims and tires after market, it would be cheaper to buy an F350.

DL N K · 02-09-2007, 02:04 AM

I just picked up a new '07 F250 6.0, CC, SB, 4X4 back in November.
The truck has 10,000 gross weight capacity, and also has the factory optional 18 inch wheels. The tires are
275 70 18's.
If I remember correctly, the door post sticker says rear axle is good for 6100 lbs. The tires, when inflated to sidewall pressure, (80psi) are good for 3400 and something each. The post sticker says 65psi. Here's the response I got from Continental Tire to my question about loading.

"We recommended following the inflation recommendations as established vehicle manufacture for your vehicle manufacture, with that said, this is the Load & Inflation information requested for the 275/7018, however, you should not use an inflation lower than what was recommended by Ford:
PS - Standard Load
35 - 2070
40 - 2270
45 - 2470
50 - 2680
55 - 2840
60 - 3020
65 - 3195"

sreigle · 02-09-2007, 02:27 AM

The 2005 Super Duty brochure shows the 18" wheels available for the "F250/F350 SRW." So the 18 inchers are an option on the F250. There is a different size 18" tire for the F250/F350SRW 4x4 than for the 4x2's. The 4x4 tire is LT275/70R18 and for the 4x2 it is LT275/65R18. The 18" rims are standard on the F350SRW and optional on the F250. The F350 dually comes with 17" and does not have an 18" option. This is just the 2005 model. I don't know about other years.

True enough, buying the F350 with the 18 inchers would be cheaper than adding them later. But for those who already have the F250 it's probably cheaper to swap the rims and tires than to trade trucks, if one perceives they need to make that swap. We've never had a tire problem in 76k miles on this truck including 70k on the OEM tires so I probably won't bother with the swap. Plus, we plan to trade this summer anyhow.

Chip · 02-09-2007, 04:11 AM

I just have to tell you about this truck I saw the other day. It was a Chevy 2500HD gas with a huge truck camper on it. You know the kind that slides onto the bed of the truck. Well this truck was on the interstate, and wobbling left and right. I was afraid to even pass it. Now this was definitely over loaded capacity. I wonder what his weight was?

Now I have never seen a 5th wheel that unstable. I have seen tow behinds like that. The 5th wheel seems to be unsurpassed in towability. I guess that is why it is easy to tow beyond the basic weight specs listed for the truck. Its a totally different animal.

jretz · 02-09-2007, 06:44 AM

DL N K,

Just for comparison the numbers for my F350 2WD Crew Cab Long Bed are:

LT275/65R18 Tires, Max inflation 85psi, Tire load rating "E" with Max Load 3415lbs per tire.
On the door post it lists the GVWR - 11,200, Front Axle - 4850, Rear Axle - 6830 and Tire inflation as 65psi front, 80psi rear.

Comparing my numbers to your F-250 CC, SB 4X4 there is not as much difference as I would expect. If, as Phil said, the extra leaf spring in his 250 increased the Rear Axle load by 1,000lbs, this makes the numbers even closer. So the question comes down to, if buying a new TV do you get the F-250 and beef it up or get the F-350? But if a person already has the F-250 it seems they can set it up to handle their needs.

Cat320 · 02-09-2007, 07:51 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by jretz

DL N K,

Just for comparison the numbers for my F350 2WD Crew Cab Long Bed are:

LT275/65R18 Tires, Max inflation 85psi, Tire load rating "E" with Max Load 3415lbs per tire.
On the door post it lists the GVWR - 11,200, Front Axle - 4850, Rear Axle - 6830 and Tire inflation as 65psi front, 80psi rear.

Comparing my numbers to your F-250 CC, SB 4X4 there is not as much difference as I would expect. If, as Phil said, the extra leaf spring in his 250 increased the Rear Axle load by 1,000lbs, this makes the numbers even closer. So the question comes down to, if buying a new TV do you get the F-250 and beef it up or get the F-350? But if a person already has the F-250 it seems they can set it up to handle their needs.

Also, as Phil stated, the extra spring does not increase his GVWR, so in actuality, it makes the driver feel a bit better about being over loaded.

Normally you will not see any visible damage from towing over weight, it would have to be a catastrophic failure for us to actually 'see' it. What you will have is increased wear and tear and parts prematurely wearing out.

As I have said on this forum before, our diesels will pull anything. However, tire size, tire ratings and pressures, 4 x 4, 4 x 2, axle ratings, booster springs, air bags, GVWR, etc., all pale in comparison to the bottom line for 5th wheel work which is cargo capacity.

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