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Old 05-12-2019, 11:35 AM   #61
BiggarView
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Saying one can tow a trailer of any given weight is not accurate. It is also incomplete. Tow ratings are based on specific ideal criteria in order to sell their product and because of design limits. You can load a trailer to a certain trailer CCC and break the rear axle of the truck and you can also load the same trailer with the same CCC weight and lift the truck rear axle off the ground. Try towing that trailer. Just because the mfr says you can tow 15000, say, does not mean you actually can, balancing the trailer load must be considered. As you consider that, you have to consider the load on the truck rear axle and the load that gets placed on the trailer axles. IF you do it right, you can tow up to the mfr ratings. Everybody's experience will be different even with identical rigs because everybody loads their rigs differently... All is should be obvious but so often, it seems, in the heat of this endless debate it gets forgotten or ignored.

Bottom line, math is math... everything else is ego, or faith, or opinion none of which will help you in a court of law if, it ever comes to that.
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Old 05-12-2019, 11:38 AM   #62
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No. No. No, that 10,000lb limit absolutely means something! If you exceed it your frame will bend, your axle will break, your brakes will turn to dust and your wheel bearings will melt. Your handling will deteriorate until you look like a snake going down the road. If you merely fart in the seat the wind will push you off the road. There's a reason the engineers designed these 3/4 tons to have a max of 10,000lbs. Odd, now that I think about it, how did three different engineers all design their trucks to come out at exactly 10,000lbs max capacity? Hmm... I think know...they all use a Lippert frame!
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Old 05-12-2019, 11:49 AM   #63
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I have to go back to keeping your audience in mind. If your addressing the concerns of a newbee to towing then it is more than about the math. They are counting on your experience and honesty. To me that means advising them about the pros and cons of going with barely enough truck and getting the next size beyond that.


One of the things I have certainly learned is that nearly everyone starts smaller and ends up with a larger trailer. Often like me, in very short order. We only owned our 32' for a little over a year before upgrading to a 42'. Not having the advantage of good advice from this group when I purchased the first camper I bought a 3/4 ton to tow it. It did ok but I quickly realized that it limited my choices going forward. I had to take a bit of a loss to trade up to a larger truck when we started looking at larger 5ers.


But that also afforded me the opportunity to compare the difference between 3/4 SRW and 1 ton DRW. I don't care what anyone else says. THERE IS A DRAMATIC DIFFERENCE!! And I will preach that to any Newbee that asks for advice on here. The rest of you are NOT the audience for that advice.
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Old 05-12-2019, 02:17 PM   #64
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In 2005 we thought along the lines you did and bought a truck, We thought it would be fine. Then we bought a 5th wheel. Did not work together. I would suggest you get the 5er you want, Then buy a truck that will pull it. Also take the rig out for a month or so before you give up your apartment. I love spending the winter in Fl in a 55+ community and although my husband wanted to buy land I have resisted. WE have in the past 10 years seen too many couples who do what you want to do and 5 years down the road find it isn't what they want or can do any longer and have nothing to return to that is on one floor. We have been wintering in our Montana for 10 years now and love it. But he hates dragging it anywhere, which is another whole kettle of fish. It isn't difficult, we can both drive, just very nerve wracking for him. My advice is try living the way you want to go before you give up everything for a mobile lifestyle.
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Old 05-12-2019, 02:40 PM   #65
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It was said on page 3: "The 10,000 pound gvwr for "3/4 ton" trucks is really nothing more than a registration and licensing scheme"

Actually it is a rating that the manufacturer places on the truck based upon how they built it. Then, it is licensed accordingly.
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Old 05-12-2019, 02:56 PM   #66
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And you think that it's just coincidence that all three major manufacturers just happened to come out at 10,000lbs? Come on, these guys make a huge deal over 1mpg or 2 cubic feet of room advantage over their competition. Don't you think they would want bragging rites over who's 3/4 ton could haul the most? Funny, they do on 1/2 tons and duallys!
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Old 05-12-2019, 03:12 PM   #67
Goodrich3600
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Did you buy right truck

First off the first thing you should do is pick the RV that you want to pull. Not the truck first. Sorry but that then allows you to have the trailer weight plus around 1,500 lbs or so that you will add. If you put in a generator or plan to haul extra water or other items you have to figure that all in. Once you know your trailer weight then you can determine the truck size to purchase. Donít let anyone fool you, the truck manufacturer will give you maximum allowable towing weight . Ex: ford 350 diesel srw will only allow 23,500 total. Take the truck weight , add in passenger weight, any extra fuel or load items and weight of the fifth wheel hitch and get your truck weight. If the truck weighs in around 10,000lbs you only safely have 13,500 for your RV. As for pin weight that is more for having a balanced load, you want about 20-25 percent on pin to balance the towing so ex: if trailer weighs 13,500 your pin weight will be around 2600 - 3000 lbs. salesman will sell you what you want and most donít even understand DOT standards. Also in talking to numerous 5th wheelers they are overloaded and donít understand the problem they expose themselves to. Bottom line for the novice is buy a dually and you will be better equipped to haul anything over 36í , just keep in mind the majority I see on the road have dented fenders because the drivers forget the extra width (just look at them and you will chuckle how many you see).
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Old 05-12-2019, 03:59 PM   #68
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Just wanted to let you know what went through and why we purchased our truck. Like you we plan to retire soon and will be purchasing our 5th wheel. The 5th wheels we are looking at are all 40 plus feet with pin weights ranging from 2600 to 3800 pounds. I researched the topic for several months. Our previous truck was a 1/2 ton extended cab with a 6 1/2 foot box. Everyone told me at those trailer weights I would easily be in the 1 ton dually range! I doubted it until I did all the research. I told my wife I didnít want a diesel or a dually!!!! Much to both our surprise I ended up ordering a Ford 1 ton diesel dually 4x4 equipped with everything I wanted (8 foot box). I can tell you it is the nicest truck I have ever owned and I do not regret the decision at all! The only other truck I considered ordering was the Dodge Diesel dually but the 32 gallon fuel tank wasnít going to do it for us. I drove both the Ford and Dodge and liked them equally well. My truck rides very nice down the highway even without pulling anything! I am comforted knowing if while running down the highway with the 5th wheel on and have one of the rear tires blow I will be able to get off the road safely! Not sure how that would end with the SRW 1 ton or worse, the 3/4 ton. Again, I never thought I would enjoy driving a 22 foot long diesel as much as I do now! In my opinion if you can afford the dually (shop around youíll be surprised how reasonable you can get one for) get a dually!
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Old 05-12-2019, 06:05 PM   #69
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Pin weight.

We have a 2018- 3791RD We pull with a Chevy 3500 4 door, dually diesel. Here is my weights for my last trip out. I do carry 109 gal of fuel so my weight is up there. But my pin weight is listed also. We did pick up 200 lbs this year. Every year we get a little more junk tucked away in these 6 massive storage bays.

Cat scales
41'1" long. 13'5" tall
Weight Full of fuel.
20 gal of fresh water.
Truck.&Trailer #24800 gross
Front axel truck- #5240 (5600 max)
Rear axel truck-#7920 (9375 max)
Trailer axels-#11640. (14,000 max)
Hitch weight-# 3680
Steer axel added weight -# 130
Trailer gross weight -#14740

More is better when buying a truck.
Best of luck.

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Old 05-12-2019, 06:46 PM   #70
mtlakejim
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Originally Posted by Goodrich3600 View Post
First off the first thing you should do is pick the RV that you want to pull. Not the truck first. Sorry but that then allows you to have the trailer weight plus around 1,500 lbs or so that you will add. If you put in a generator or plan to haul extra water or other items you have to figure that all in. Once you know your trailer weight then you can determine the truck size to purchase. Donít let anyone fool you, the truck manufacturer will give you maximum allowable towing weight . Ex: ford 350 diesel srw will only allow 23,500 total. Take the truck weight , add in passenger weight, any extra fuel or load items and weight of the fifth wheel hitch and get your truck weight. If the truck weighs in around 10,000lbs you only safely have 13,500 for your RV. As for pin weight that is more for having a balanced load, you want about 20-25 percent on pin to balance the towing so ex: if trailer weighs 13,500 your pin weight will be around 2600 - 3000 lbs. salesman will sell you what you want and most donít even understand DOT standards. Also in talking to numerous 5th wheelers they are overloaded and donít understand the problem they expose themselves to. Bottom line for the novice is buy a dually and you will be better equipped to haul anything over 36í , just keep in mind the majority I see on the road have dented fenders because the drivers forget the extra width (just look at them and you will chuckle how many you see).
Better dented than dead.
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Old 05-12-2019, 06:48 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Cyride View Post
Just wanted to let you know what went through and why we purchased our truck. Like you we plan to retire soon and will be purchasing our 5th wheel. The 5th wheels we are looking at are all 40 plus feet with pin weights ranging from 2600 to 3800 pounds. I researched the topic for several months. Our previous truck was a 1/2 ton extended cab with a 6 1/2 foot box. Everyone told me at those trailer weights I would easily be in the 1 ton dually range! I doubted it until I did all the research. I told my wife I didnít want a diesel or a dually!!!! Much to both our surprise I ended up ordering a Ford 1 ton diesel dually 4x4 equipped with everything I wanted (8 foot box). I can tell you it is the nicest truck I have ever owned and I do not regret the decision at all! The only other truck I considered ordering was the Dodge Diesel dually but the 32 gallon fuel tank wasnít going to do it for us. I drove both the Ford and Dodge and liked them equally well. My truck rides very nice down the highway even without pulling anything! I am comforted knowing if while running down the highway with the 5th wheel on and have one of the rear tires blow I will be able to get off the road safely! Not sure how that would end with the SRW 1 ton or worse, the 3/4 ton. Again, I never thought I would enjoy driving a 22 foot long diesel as much as I do now! In my opinion if you can afford the dually (shop around youíll be surprised how reasonable you can get one for) get a dually!
Happy to hear it. Congratulations!
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Old 05-12-2019, 07:09 PM   #72
davemitchell59
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If you're full timing and plan to be moving/towing a lot, get a bigger truck. You'll never regret having too big of a truck. Reality is, it doesn't cost much more. But towing overweight could cost you everything.
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Old 05-12-2019, 07:31 PM   #73
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I have been towing my 2007 Montana 3500 RL since new in 2006 with my 2002 F250 super crew long bed. I also tow my 2010 Reinell fiberglass 207 behind that. Altogether, at the scales my weight is 24750 behind me. I added springs to my truck in 2010 when I changed from an 19 ft boat to a 22 ft boat. I have never had an issue! My truck has the 7.3 diesel engine. I have it chipped and I average 16 MPG at 65 MPH with both behind me. I live in Montana not at sea level. My son just bought a new 2020 Montana and a new 2019 F350. No issues so far. Long box not the short box.
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Old 05-12-2019, 09:32 PM   #74
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Disclaimer; I tow with an F350 dually.

You can do it with a 250! 1) air bags (non negotiable) 2) keep your speed down 3) don’t try and pull 400 miles a day 4) stay in the right lane on divided highways and don’t get in a hurry

I have pulled my 2012 39’ Monte with the 250 I had before my dually and it was fine as long as I understood the limitations. Yes, my dually pulls it better and I feel safe going faster. But, if you don’t have a strict schedule to meet, who cares if you pull it only 55 mph and only 200 miles in a day.

You are going to get all kinds of opinions but it all depends on YOU. it can be done and done safely, just know the limitations.
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Old 05-13-2019, 01:59 AM   #75
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Here's on more thing to consider. Whether it's a 250 or a 350 and a single rear wheel it may still not safely pull a Montana. Many Montanas will put enough weight in the bed that you can't buy tires that can handle that weight. You can guess how I know. If you overloead the tires, buldges in the sidewall and cracked beads are in your future, regardless of what it says on your door.
I am running Method NV HD wheels that are 4000lb/ wheel rared, and running nitto exo grapplers that are 3860lb rated.
With an approx 3000lb rear axle weight, that allows up to another 5k in pin wt - and not many 5ers are that heavy, so wheels can be had.
Easier so if one uses a 19.5Ē wheel, which is also readily available.
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Old 05-13-2019, 02:12 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by William J Stocker Sr View Post
The F250 also has the same steering wheel as the F450.

The sticker on the door pillar has the ratings for your particular vehicle. They're ratings, not suggestions...
And the gvwr has more to do with the manufacturer keeping the price down on the 3/4 ton trucks as once a specific gvwr is passed, the tax schedule for the vehicle increases.

Otherwise, besides the rear springs, virtually every 3/4 ton SRW truck is the same truck as a one ton truck, Except the 3/4 has a more comfortable ride when unladen - at the expense of less payload (real-world) capability.
Of course, this can be remedied by adjustable air springs.
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Old 05-13-2019, 02:17 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Montana Man View Post
It was said on page 3: "The 10,000 pound gvwr for "3/4 ton" trucks is really nothing more than a registration and licensing scheme"

Actually it is a rating that the manufacturer places on the truck based upon how they built it. Then, it is licensed accordingly.
Yeah, uh

No.
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Old 05-13-2019, 04:15 AM   #78
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Best of Luck on your endeavours

We are doing the same thing you are talking about.

Purchase now, pay off, retire, and full time.
I purchased a 2500HD Duramax, great truck, but after reviewing rv's and weights, felt like the truck would be maxed out with the normal load, limiting things I could carry in the truck. Extra fuel, water, tools. I did feel confident that the truck would still pull the load, though over the ratings. Just needed g rated tires.

So I made the mistake of going to the Chevy dealer again, to check trade-in value and new tuck cost. Such a deal. So I now have the 3500 dually. I actually paid $5,000 less for the dually then the 2500

We then decided to get a rv we could afford now, and when we retire, get the full time rv. You know the saying. "Buy what you can afford now and start enjoying, instead of waiting until we could afford what we want.
Now, we can pull any rv out there.

We hit the scales with our trailer. The max for the trailer is 12k.The 2500 gvwr would be 100 lbs over, with no extra gas or water, but with the daully, not even close.
Of course, the 3500 is wider and longer, but I still go any where I want.

I do go thru drive thru. Walgreens and the bank are tight, but with the mirror retracted, I am able to make it. I do have a handicap placard, so I park right up front most times.



I never pulled the trailer with the 2500, and the engine and tranny are the some in the 2500 and 3500, but the dually pulls the trailer great. Big ole semi's will be driving next to me, and my truck and trailer don't know they are there.


The roads in Florida are nice, but we have been pulling and go across a bridge and when it went back to road, the dip was so large that the truck and trailer dipped very bad. The dually handled it, but I wondered how the 2500 would have handled it. I am sure the 2500 would have handled it, but, would have been stressed, I felt my 3500 was stressed.



Insurance is more. Not as good gas mileage, went from 23 mpg no load hwy to 21 mpg no load hwy. Did not pull the trailer with the 2500. Have to buy 2 more tires.


Really hated to go long bed, but with a 5th wheeler, this is a must. I know, slider hitches.... No thanks, and there have been times the long bed has been full. So, do like the extra room.
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Old 05-13-2019, 07:58 AM   #79
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I am not going to give my opinion on what truck you should buy. What I am going to give is information so you can make your own decision. I'm going to post the factory weight ratings of my truck and camper plus the actual weights from Cat scale reading that I did over the past month.

My Truck is a 2012 Chevy Silverado Crew Cab long bed diesel dually. It has the DuraMax 6.6 with the Alison 6 speed Transmission and 3.73 rear end gears. I replaced my factory fuel tank with a 61 gal Transfer flow tank and also added a 50 gal aux tank to the bed. I also have a in bed tool box with assorted tools and gear.

The factory weight ratings from the door sticker are as follows:

GVWR: 13,000 lbs
GAWR Frt: 5,600 lbs
GAWR Rear: 9,375 lbs

Here are the Cat scale weights of just my truck with no trailer. The main fuel tank was full (61gals), aux tank empty + driver:

Steer Axles: 5,400 lbs
Drive Axles: 4,420 lbs
Gross Weight: 9,820 lbs


My camper is a 2012 Montana 3750FL and the factory weights from the build sheet are:

GVWR: 15,740 lbs
UVW: 12,522 lbs
CCC: 2,340
CCC w/water: 1,792 lbs
Hitch: 2240
Dry Axle Weight: 10282
GAWR: 7,000 lbs x2
Exterior length: 39'1"

The following are my actual Truck and camper weights from a Cat Scale reading last week.
My truck main fuel tank was full (61gals). Aux tank empty + Driver.
Camper water tank was near empty. All grey and black tanks were empty. Reading were:

Steer Axle: 5,420 lbs
Drive axle: 6,920 lbs
Trailer Axles: 12,300 lbs
Gross weight: 24,640 lbs

These are the actual weights from my Truck and camper. They will give you a ball park idea of the weights of a 40' camper you will be dealing with.
Look at the factory weight ratings from your door sticker on your truck. Then look at the campers weight ratings you are looking to buy and do the math. Opinions do not matter. The bottom line is either you will be within you trucks weight ratings or you will not be...period. You can be within the weight rating, a little above or a lot above it's up to you. It's about the safety of you, your family and other on the road. The final decision is yours and yours along.
I hope these numbers help you with your decision.
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Old 05-13-2019, 08:44 AM   #80
Dixie Flyer
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The difference between an F250 and an F350 in the diesel is an extra leaf spring on the rear. I have a 2016 F250 that I added a helper spring to it and pull a Montana 3611rl without any problem.
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