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Old 06-30-2009, 03:21 PM   #1
Glenn and Lorraine
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Landing Gear HOW IS IT---

---When you have blown the fuse to the landing gear you can still retract them but you can't extend them?????

I am not kidding, in the process of unhooking I had to extend the jacks to get the TV out from under the pin box. After moving the TV we tried to raise the Monty to level it front to rear but the jacks would not extend but they would retract. After waiting a bit we tried to extend again and nothing but they again would retract. After retracting an inch or so we again tried to extend and again it worked but once we stopped it would no longer extend but it would again retract.

This made absolutly no sense to me but for whatever reason I decided to check the fuse anyway and lo and behold it was blown. I replaced it and now everything is working, go figure.

How can current move through a blown fuse for one action and not the other?
 
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Old 06-30-2009, 03:34 PM   #2
Art-n-Marge
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Two different circuits? One for up and one for down? I think going up needs more power than lowering and hence might need some electrical protection.

I really need to find that fuse for when it happens to me. :-)
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Old 06-30-2009, 03:51 PM   #3
Crossthread
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Glenn, The switch may be starting to melt. Mine fried in Feburary. 20 amp switch with a 40 amp fuse. Bill
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Old 06-30-2009, 04:13 PM   #4
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But how would a melting switch work one direction and not in the other when a single line fuse blew? It sure seems that there are two circuits, but I have NO clue.

Crossthread, did you replace it with another 20 amp switch?

Glenn, another curiosity. Were you plugged into shore power and if so, was it 30 amp or 50 amp? This shouldn't have mattered because isn't the 40 amp fuse running off the 12V DC power?
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Old 06-30-2009, 04:50 PM   #5
Crossthread
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Art, I went through some fuses while it was acting up . The landing gear would raise a couple inches,quit, lower a bit,quit, then nothing. Butch (Carl and Susan , Ray, Ray and Pam Howard) helped me. We went to Tucson, Beaudry Rv, and found a switch . As far as I remember we got a 40 amp switch . Hopefully Butch can set the record straight for me.
Glenn, it takes a WHOLE LOT of turns on the crank to get it back on the truck. Bill
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Old 06-30-2009, 04:56 PM   #6
Tom S.
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Crossthread has it. It's known as single pole, double throw (SPDT) and here's an educated guess. The jacks draw more current extending because they are fighting the weight of the trailer. When retracting they draw less current because the weight of the trailer (as in gravity) is 'helping' them. Since the extracting draws more current, it makes sense that side of the switch would go bad while the retract side stayed working.

What doesn't make sense is 20 amp rating of the switch and the 40 amp fuse.
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Old 06-30-2009, 05:24 PM   #7
Art-n-Marge
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Duh, of course. The switch is the source of the two circuits (SPDT), one for up, one for down. Your comments now make sense to me since you pointed this out. Does this mean that the retract would have its own fuse but a lesser rated one?

It's good that a 40 amp switch is now in place, because it should always be rated for the maximum ratings of its circuits, or guess what, it could melt or fail, for example, as 30 amps goes through a 20 amp switch but isn't enough to break a 40 amp fuse.
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Old 07-01-2009, 12:45 AM   #8
Tom S.
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No, there is only one hot wire going to the switch, so only one fuse is needed. Think of it this way: hot wire comes in the center of the switch. Pushing up on the switch sends the current out to operate the motor one way, while pressing down sends it out to make the motor operate the other way. It's kind of like a water valve that is capable of sending water out one of two hoses.
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Old 07-01-2009, 01:58 AM   #9
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Tom S., So following what Glenn experienced each leg leaving the switch must be fused?? One fuse on the retract leg and one on the extend leg.
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Old 07-01-2009, 02:01 AM   #10
Glenn and Lorraine
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SPDT is correct. One fuse is also correct and in my case it is a 30AMP.
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Tom S.

No, there is only one hot wire going to the switch, so only one fuse is needed. Think of it this way: hot wire comes in the center of the switch. Pushing up on the switch sends the current out to operate the motor one way, while pressing down sends it out to make the motor operate the other way. It's kind of like a water valve that is capable of sending water out one of two hoses.
I understand BUT unlike your example of '2' water hoses there is only 1 wire going to the motor from the switch.
BTW-the switch looks fine. No sign of overheat or melting.

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Old 07-01-2009, 05:40 AM   #11
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The switch on the landing gear actually has to reverse the polarity of the motor in order to get the landing gear to change directions. Here's a good diagram of how it works. http://www.distel.co.uk/DC_MOT_CON1.htm
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Old 07-01-2009, 09:44 AM   #12
Glenn and Lorraine
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Imagine that. I knew that if you reversed polarity on a DC motor it would run in reverse. What I didn't know is that there is a switch made to do just that.

Between this and sreigle's frogs my brain is about fried.
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Old 07-01-2009, 10:30 AM   #13
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This doesn't really explain how the circuit can work with the fuse blown, since the fuse is in the path for either polarity. Unless, the motor's wiring is bit more complex with a common (-) and a separate (+) for each direction? If the fuse was in line for one direction, but not the other...
On edit: in our 2009 3400RL, a single fuse protects the landing gear and the slides. It's in the wire from the battery to the electronics package. I traced the wires from the LG motor (two wires, no other connections). There is a parallel connection that can draw motor current from either of two sources: the manual switch or the electronics package. The manual switch is a momentary sprung rocker (returns to center by spring action) with four wires. Without taking the sealed connections (heat shrink and electrical tape) apart, I can't tell how it's wired. It's possible that it's a DPDT with one pole made in one direction and the other pole made in the other, which would keep the up circuit separate from the down circuit. I did find another fuse (15A) in one of the lines out of the electronics package. Perhaps Glenn's problem lies with a fuse he hasn't found yet? After an hour with my head in the battery bay, the beer fridge called my name and I gave up further tracing. I will go back to this problem very soon, though. It has given me good reason to learn the guts of our Monty. I must say that the wiring is a dog's breakfast of gauges and colour schemes. The manual switch has fat wires (10 or 12AWG), making the package very stiff and crooked in the panel opening (I fixed this), yet those fat wires are terminated to skinny wires (14 or 16AWG) in the wiring harness.
Which still doesn't explain Glenn's problem...
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Old 07-01-2009, 12:05 PM   #14
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by KathyandDave

This doesn't really explain how the circuit can work with the fuse blown, since the fuse is in the path for either polarity. Unless, the motor's wiring is bit more complex with a common (-) and a separate (+) for each direction? If the fuse was in line for one direction, but not the other...
It can't. As Crossthread said, he went through several fuses before he learned the switch was bad. OP most likely has a situation where the switch EXT position is fried. Sometimes when pressing up nothing happens, while other times it blows the fuse. Theoretically, it could also be an issue with the motor, but I've not seen a DC motor that would run in one direction and not the other.
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Old 07-01-2009, 12:22 PM   #15
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I was doing okay until Glenn's brain started frying. I cannot figure out how sreigle's frogs play in to this or even how they came up? Did Steve use frogs in place of fuses - sounds cruel but I'd like to know how it worked? Unlike most people who use hamsters in a wheel as a motor, does Steve use frogs? In addition to Glenn's brains frying, did Steve fry up some frogs?

Wow, this is getting good. I can't wait to hear the outcome. I think I will try to follow KathyandDave or Tom S.
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Old 07-01-2009, 12:22 PM   #16
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Quote:
quote:
It can't.
unless there's a relay in between, as is the case with the motor for the slide hydraulics. The electronics package definitely puts some complexity between the simple manual switch and the simpler motor.
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Old 07-01-2009, 03:44 PM   #17
SlickWillie
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I've got to go with Tom on this one. The landing gear will not operate without the fuse. Those switches have contacts. One side is probably burned from arching, and may well be intermittent. It doesn't matter if you have a relay or what, if the fuse is blown, the motor will not operate.

However, if you have a 40 amp fuse, and a 20 amp switch, a relay might not be a bad idea. JMHO
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Old 07-01-2009, 04:29 PM   #18
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Now on the newer models add your remote control to this and you will really have a puzzling circuit. To allow the remote to be functional, there has to be individual relays that closes the circuit for one direction or the other for that DC motor. This is where the lighter gauge wiring comes in to play. Would be so nice to have a printed circuit!! Ellis
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Old 07-02-2009, 02:50 AM   #19
Tom S.
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Art-n-Marge

I was doing okay until Glenn's brain started frying. I cannot figure out how sreigle's frogs play in to this or even how they came up? Did Steve use frogs in place of fuses - sounds cruel but I'd like to know how it worked? Unlike most people who use hamsters in a wheel as a motor, does Steve use frogs? In addition to Glenn's brains frying, did Steve fry up some frogs?

Wow, this is getting good. I can't wait to hear the outcome. I think I will try to follow KathyandDave or Tom S.
LMAO! That got my morning chuckle. Who ever knew frogs were so versatile!
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