Bi-pass Black Tank? - Montana Owners Club

Ronnelly · 02-16-2008, 08:51 AM

Has any body done a bi-pass for the toilet drain to go direct to the sewer? Wondering if it could be done, so when you are hooked up for several months or full time, that you would not have to keep emptying the black tank and flusing it. Seems like there could be way to be able to use the toilet with or without the black holding tank.

Trailer Trash 2 · 02-16-2008, 09:32 AM

I dont think that will work very good being we have the holding tank and not a sewer line as a house would have. I believe that our holding tank for the dark side flushes better when it is drained when at the 2/3rds or full level.

Ronnelly · 02-16-2008, 09:45 AM

We wait until it is close to full and then flush it too. When the gage shows empty we know we did a good job. Was just thinking that maybe there would be 2 ways to do it.

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Trailer Trash 2

I dont think that will work very good being we have the holding tank and not a sewer line as a house would have. I believe that our holding tank for the dark side flushes better when it is drained when at the 2/3rds or full level.

Mrs. CountryGuy · 02-16-2008, 09:51 AM

I have to say that I think this is a BAD idea. Those tanks are only about 4 to 6 inches deep, you need water to float stuff in there, if it is left dry inbetween, I can make a great pay off bet on what is gonna happen. The heavy stuff, paper and other, is gonna sink to the bottom and pile up, mountain up, whatever you wanna call it. You will then find out if Rid ex and all those other break em down enzymes really do work. We won't do it with gray or galley either, as there is stuff floating around in those waters, and if left to dry on the bottom of the tank you now have a scum of concrete. More water, Less paper, add some Calgon and don't leave those tanks open. That is our take on it. Suggest you think hard before you go there.

Waynem · 02-16-2008, 10:09 AM

You are talking about bypassing the black tank altogether. I would think that if you bypass you would need at least a gallon of water, or more, to insure that matter flushed out through the lines. Similar to the stick house that has a holding tank on the toilet for just such purposes. You would want as short a line as possible with a large downhill slope to the sewer hook up point. I guess you could put a toilet in with a holding tank and that would help keep it clear. It still may be necessary from time to time to run the roto router through the bypass line. Who knows. Just my opinion and I'M NOT A PLUMBER. In fact I hate plumbing.

Parrothead · 02-16-2008, 10:28 AM

We have seen this done at several parks where people are living there or there for a long time. I don't think some understood what you were asking. It is not a matter of leaving the black tank open, the black tank is completely bypassed. I think this would only pay off if you are planning on staying in one spot for a year or more.
Happy trails......................

Ronnelly · 02-16-2008, 12:45 PM

I would not have it go thru the black tank with it open, but have another line going to the sewer from the toilet. You probably would need a flush house type toilet and the same type of extra direct sewer line. I was just wondering if anybody had done it like it would be in a house.

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Mrs. CountryGuy

I have to say that I think this is a BAD idea. Those tanks are only about 4 to 6 inches deep, you need water to float stuff in there, if it is left dry inbetween, I can make a great pay off bet on what is gonna happen. The heavy stuff, paper and other, is gonna sink to the bottom and pile up, mountain up, whatever you wanna call it. You will then find out if Rid ex and all those other break em down enzymes really do work. We won't do it with gray or galley either, as there is stuff floating around in those waters, and if left to dry on the bottom of the tank you now have a scum of concrete. More water, Less paper, add some Calgon and don't leave those tanks open. That is our take on it. Suggest you think hard before you go there.

Ronnelly · 02-16-2008, 12:49 PM

We are not full timing, but thought if we ever would it might be nice to be able to bi-pass the black holding tank. Just wondering in case anybody on the MCO might have done it. Thanks for all of your input.

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Parrothead

We have seen this done at several parks where people are living there or there for a long time. I don't think some understood what you were asking. It is not a matter of leaving the black tank open, the black tank is completely bypassed. I think this would only pay off if you are planning on staying in one spot for a year or more.
Happy trails......................

VanMan · 02-16-2008, 01:27 PM

If I understand your proposal, you will have all the odors and germs coming up from the sewer unless you create some type of "P" trap and then I don't think you could ever have enough pressure to flush unless you actually install a "regular" commode.

Mrs. CountryGuy · 02-16-2008, 01:40 PM

It is an interesting question, I fess up, I did sorta mis-understand. But, I am still not totally convinced it is a good idea.

That said, you gotta know that Al HATES, and I mean HATES plumbing, and that directly translates into, he would never consider it!

I don't know much about plumbing and stuff, but VanMan's comment about traps and such make a lot of sense to me. You would most likely want to make sure you were not bringing in foul smells.

It just sounds like a lot of work and $$$$, and take up a lot of room in a crowded basement/underbelly of the coach. Not sure how you could make it work on different campsites, as just about all of them put that silly sewer connection someplace else on the lot. You would need some good slant to the hose/pipes you use as a connection from the toilet to the ground.

But, then, remember, Al HATES plumbing!

Parrothead · 02-16-2008, 01:53 PM

Ron
As a full timer, we do not stay in one place for more than a month or two and this would not be worth it to us.
Happy trails.....................

bsmeaton · 02-16-2008, 07:31 PM

Although not available in the Montana line - you are describing a "park" model trailer. They use a standard toilet and a waste dump designed like a house with a trap in the drain to prevent odor build up. They do not have tanks (fresh or waste). Park models are common options in Travel trailers, but non-existant in 5th wheels.

SlickWillie · 02-17-2008, 01:02 AM

The trap is built in on the flush toilets. If I recall the standard rough in on a residential commode is 12". (wall to center of drain) They can be purchased otherwise, but IIRC they are somewhat high in price. You can merely purchase an offset closet flange to obtain sufficient distance from the wall. (our commode is not 12" from the wall). I would definitely want more water volume than the RV toilets provide if not using a holding tank. If we stay where we are, I would consider this option, placing a valve where operation could be swapped back to the holding tank if needed.

As Brad mentioned about the park models, it is my understanding that the FEMA trailers also came without holding tanks.

Mudchief · 02-17-2008, 02:23 AM

I don't know how your 3380 is set up but in my 3400 I could do that. The drain goes down through the basement. You could cut it, add a Y fitting and install a dump valve at the bottom going to the black tank, then route the other end of the Y fitting out the bottom going to your sewer. The water in the stool will keep the odor from your unit just like it does now from the black tank. You would want to make sure you had plenty of water in the stool before you flush to make sure you have enough to wash things down the drain pipe.

sreigle · 02-17-2008, 09:33 AM

We have friends living in a 2002 2880RL they bought new and have never moved it. I'm pretty sure they've done what you are proposing. If you want, I can email them and ask them how they did it. Ronnelly, email me and let me know if you want me to ask them. I may not be on here for a few days so an email would be a more sure thing.

sailer · 02-17-2008, 02:58 PM

If you install a reg tiolet and follow the plumbing codes of the pipes at 1/4 " pitch per ft or a direct drop down it will work great but you can't run much more than 1/4" per ft or the water will out flow the solids and now big problems john

sreigle · 02-18-2008, 04:16 AM

I talked to my friend and I was wrong. He dumps just like we do. So, never mind.

Larry · 02-18-2008, 08:11 AM

FEMA trailers are hard-piped and do not have holding tanks. Wonder how they made that work?

bsmeaton · 02-18-2008, 08:31 AM

When I was in New Orleans I saw both types of FEMA trailers. Those in temporary camps had holding tanks and the honey bucket truck would come around pump them out.

Some FEMA trailers were set up in folks driveways or yards and FEMA tapped into the main sewer line for the house. Some had tanks and some were park models without tanks (plumbing like a house). As shown below, FEMA hard piped to the below grade sewer then attached a hard pipe vent up the side of the trailer to serve as a sewer vent.

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