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Old 01-22-2009, 05:30 AM   #21
TLightning
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just trampin...check your numbers, it looks like you are using empty weights. My 3400 has a loaded PW of 2500# plus I carry about 1000# of other 'stuff' (hitch weight, passengers, extra fuel, tools, etc). That 3500# weight in the truck is over all GM 3/4 and one ton srw trucks...don't know about Dodge or Ford. Run some loaded weights then check the truck numbers.

IMHO, the reason to have a dually is to haul the Montana very safely and stay within specs. Reasons like 'it won't fit through the car wash' and 'it's too wide to go through McDonalds' have no place in the discussion. If they are reasons for not owning a dually, then the driver should get a smaller trailer.
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Old 01-22-2009, 05:30 PM   #22
rubble express
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2000lb pin weight? It's gonna be way more than that even empty. We don't carry alot of stuff we don't use and our last trip to the scales showed @13,400lb total and @2800lb on the pin.
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:49 PM   #23
Jim Jarvis
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by TLightning

just trampin...check your numbers, it looks like you are using empty weights. My 3400 has a loaded PW of 2500# plus I carry about 1000# of other 'stuff' (hitch weight, passengers, extra fuel, tools, etc). That 3500# weight in the truck is over all GM 3/4 and one ton srw trucks...don't know about Dodge or Ford. Run some loaded weights then check the truck numbers.

IMHO, the reason to have a dually is to haul the Montana very safely and stay within specs. Reasons like 'it won't fit through the car wash' and 'it's too wide to go through McDonalds' have no place in the discussion. If they are reasons for not owning a dually, then the driver should get a smaller trailer.
Exactly.
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Old 01-24-2009, 03:25 PM   #24
mcgiver2
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IMHO, the reason to have a dually is to haul the Montana very safely and stay within specs. Reasons like 'it won't fit through the car wash' and 'it's too wide to go through McDonald's' have no place in the discussion. If they are reasons for not owning a dually, then the driver should get a smaller trailer.

As for me i agree with Jim........iown a dually and have for years it the stability pulling down the road i bought a 3/4 ton 5 years ago and new it was Wong move the first time i pulled a large trailer. so i didn't keep it 6 months.......... it i cant get out and walk in McDonald's then i dint need to eat there......Allen
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Old 01-24-2009, 04:28 PM   #25
Dmaxdon
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A 2500HD Dmax has a 9200 pound gross vehicle weight rating and can weigh as much as 8000 pounds with a few tools and two heavy adults in the front seat leaving an anemic 1200 pound payload. A fiver's pin weight is payload and all the Montana models put much more than 1200 pounds on the pin.
My 3500HD dually Dmax has an 11400 pound GVWR and with the same tools and the same two big folks in the example above, would weigh around 8400 pounds leaving 3000 pounds of payload or pin weight. Enough for most but not every Montana.

Fords have higher GVW ratings but are heavier trucks than GMCs so have similar payloads.
Your trailer tow mirrors are wider than your duals and the SRW trucks have trailer tow mirrors so what is the big deal.

If you want to tow a big dog, you need a big dog to tow it with.

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Old 01-25-2009, 03:15 AM   #26
Bill-N-Donna
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I used to pull a trailer using a ĺ ton Chevy van. That was the most white knuckle experience Iíve ever had. Part of the reason was due to an extension on the trailer hitch which shoved the pivot point further away from the axles. I purchased the first dually I ever had which was a Dodge Ram 1-ton extended cab. I could not believe the difference it made in my towing experience. I finally had control of the trailer and it didnít have control of me. It isnít a very pleasant experience when youíre traveling down the road at 65 MPH and a 22í trailer starts to sway behind you. Getting the dually after that for me at that time made a big difference.

Iíve never pulled the fifth wheel with a single axle but I feel very stable towing the Monty with the dually. The F-350 I have now is also my daily driving vehicle. Itís big, itís bigger than the Dodge and I have less turning radius. There are places that I canít get into and places that I donít try but for the most part Iím able to go anywhere I want to. I always find a suitable place for parking. Iíve been known to take two places at times. Just yesterday I pulled into a place and pulled to the other isle and parked facing to pull out. The back end extended into the parking place behind me when I stopped. So be it, I parked far enough from the door that it didnít bother anyone. Sometimes you canít make a tight turn to get in or out of a single parking space so for me it might require two spots. They just donít make parking places for that size of a vehicle so I adjust. Parking in the outer part of the parking lot will also help in not getting what I call ďcourtesy dentsĒ from people who are trying to get the closest place near the front door.

I guess as far as the car-wash debate I found a local car wash that hand washes and Iíve been using that during colder weather. There is a dually automated car wash near me also but I havenít tried it. Iím not sure if my truck is too long for it or not. I donít seem to have many problems at a drive through either unless it has a really tight turn getting into it. For me, if Iím not in a turn, I figure that if the mirrors will clear the back fenders will clear. Iíve not had a problem with that so far; it is close at times but I watch closely and ease on through.

For me Iíll take the larger dually vehicle for the stability. I really enjoy driving it as an everyday vehicle as well!


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Old 01-25-2009, 04:55 AM   #27
Delaine and Lindy
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Just ran out and measured my dually. Its 20" wider on each side and the Towing mirrors are the same. I really believe the wide butt dually intimidate's a lot of people. I do believe the dually should be used in towing any thing over 34' but thats just my opinion. I haven't seen a accident were a dually was pulling the trailer, but I'm sure you have. But as said above if your only excuse in not owning a dually is because you can get thru drive thru's and can't park close to the entrance, well that don't hold water in my opinion. As we age we all have a tendency to gain (weight) and many don't get enough exercise so the extra steps will be good for you. I had rather drive the dually than the car. Delaine followed me down in the car to Florida, sure it did save some on Diesel but we want do this again. The dually owners will never convince the SRW drivers that there is a difference in the two Trucks. GBY....
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Old 01-25-2009, 05:11 AM   #28
richfaa
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Our 08 F-350 Dually with the snow plow package and the Camper package has a GVWR of 13,000lbs and stated CC of 4268lbs. However the truck ready to tow, Two folks, full fuel and bird is 9217 lbs leaving 3783lbs CC. (Fords are heavy)
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Old 01-25-2009, 05:24 AM   #29
Delaine and Lindy
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Those Fords are heavy, when we were looking at the Ford F-450 and I took it to the Scales, but don't remember the weight but it didn't weigh as much as my Chevy Kodiak 4500 and it wasn't a 4x4, its weight was 10,900 lbs with full load of fuel 148 gals total. My 2008 Chevy 3500HD 4x4 on Cat scales ready to tow with Delaine and Montana (my dog) was 8,560 lbs. don't remember what the numbers are but we tow heavy and are over on Gross weight. But not as heavy as the Cambridge our weight then was 25,600 with the same set up except we use the Trailer Saver hitch which is heavier than the B&W hitch. I assure you it don't take much to get heavy. GBY....
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Old 01-25-2009, 05:32 AM   #30
DarMar
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Very well said Lindy, nor will the SRW owners convince the DRW owners that their is no difference in stability. Just drive a DRW while towing and the differnce will be obvious, but still, in the end, what you choose to tow with is your decision. JMHO!!!
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Old 01-25-2009, 06:08 AM   #31
TLightning
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by richfaa

Our 08 F-350 Dually with the snow plow package and the Camper package has a GVWR of 13,000lbs and stated CC of 4268lbs. However the truck ready to tow, Two folks, full fuel and bird is 9217 lbs leaving 3783lbs CC. (Fords are heavy)
Yep, Fords are very heavy. My D/A dually has a GVWR of 11,400 and a CC off the sticker of 4,257.

So my truck weighs 7143 (11,400 - 4257).

The Ford above weighs 8732 (13,000 - 4268).

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Old 01-25-2009, 06:55 AM   #32
richfaa
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Tom that is some good math..I have jotted down on the window sticker that came on my 08 Ford what it weighed when I drove it of the dealers lot to the scales.8710lbs.It did not have a full tank of fuel.
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Old 01-25-2009, 06:58 AM   #33
Dmaxdon
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You pretty well have to weigh a vehicle because the weights in the brochure can be for the lightest model with the least options. My 08 3500HD Dually LTZ Dmax 4x4 extended cab with a full tank of fuel and me at 185 lb was 7850 at a government scale.
The truck was brand new. Since then I have added my hitch, 150 pounds, rubber bed mat at 60 pounds, after market bling on the front end and I am now at over 8000 pounds.
A Crew cab would be a little heavier. A basic WT model would be lighter than an LTZ because all that bling has weight. I have two alternators, most trucks have one. The weight difference between a 2500HD and a 3500HD dually with identical options is not really that great but the payload difference is huge.An 11400 GVWR compared to a 9200 GVWR.
What confuses so many people is the fact that both of the above vehicles have the same combined tow rating of 23000 pounds and that is fine for the people with bumper pull trailers but for the 5th wheel people that are putting 2000 to 3000 pounds
pin weight in the bed of their trucks, many SRW trucks will be over the GVWR and some will even be over the rear axle rating. You still may be safe enough being over your gross weight but if you are over your rear axle weight you are not safe.
The States and Provinces where you must have a special RV driver's license endorsement to pull trailers greater than 10000 pounds as I had to do, the reason they do this is so you understand truck ratings so if you are over them, you can not use ignorance as an excuse. You are liable because you passed a test all about GVWR and GCWR and you understand how it applies to your unit. I drive a dually because I pull a Montana fiver with 2600 pounds of pin weight.
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Old 01-25-2009, 07:09 AM   #34
Delaine and Lindy
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Weight is a pain for OTR Commerical Drivers. Its is amazing after the wagon is loaded and you cross the scales and are over on the trailer or the Truck what happens when you slide the 5th wheel or slide the trailer axles, the numbers will change. And what GM, Ford or Dodge post on their Towing ratings are in every GM Truck I have owned is never correct. Whats the real answer I don't have a clue, except you just have to weight Truck and Trailer. I also know for a fact the weight posted on 5th wheels is also never correct. Wish I had the ability to slide my Trailer axles, or the 5th wheel, that would be a plus. But there you go more weight and MONEY. Just load the wagon and don't worry about the mule. If thats within your comfort zone. GBY....
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Old 01-25-2009, 07:55 AM   #35
richfaa
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Well the numbers Posted on my Ford sticker were pretty close as Tom above noted. By subtracting the 13K from the listed CC he got 8732. The actual weight right off the lot was 8710. Truck empty and probably not a full tank of fuel....How close can you get??
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Old 01-25-2009, 12:52 PM   #36
TLightning
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quote:Originally posted by richfaa

Well the numbers Posted on my Ford sticker were pretty close as Tom above noted. By subtracting the 13K from the listed CC he got 8732. The actual weight right off the lot was 8710. Truck empty and probably not a full tank of fuel....How close can you get??
Yep, some folks make this way too hard. Take that CC number off the sticker of the truck (NOT the internet or the brochure or the manual) and subtract it from the GVWR...there's your truck weight before you add anything to it.
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Old 01-25-2009, 04:01 PM   #37
Dmaxdon
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I have my new truck sticker in my hand and I can not find any reference to weight but I live in BC Canada so possibly the sticker info is different. The only weight reference I have ever found on any of my trucks is the tire sticker on the door panel which shows I have a payload of 3908 pounds. Subtract that from my 11400 pound GVWR and that would indicate that my truck weighs 7492 pounds which is fairly close but still not accurate. It is very simple to weigh your vehicle, nothing hard about it.

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Old 01-26-2009, 03:44 AM   #38
richfaa
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Dmaxdon.. The sticker on the door is the one we are talking about. Mine was within 22 lbs. I am sure the difference was fuel.
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Old 01-26-2009, 07:13 AM   #39
TLightning
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quote:Originally posted by Dmaxdon

I have my new truck sticker in my hand and I can not find any reference to weight but I live in BC Canada so possibly the sticker info is different. The only weight reference I have ever found on any of my trucks is the tire sticker on the door panel which shows I have a payload of 3908 pounds. Subtract that from my 11400 pound GVWR and that would indicate that my truck weighs 7492 pounds which is fairly close but still not accurate. It is very simple to weigh your vehicle, nothing hard about it.

As Rich noted, that is the correct sticker and the one we are discussing...it's called the Tire and Loading Information sticker. The feds made it mandatory for all vehicles starting with the 2005 model year. That payload number is before we add anything to the vehicle...passengers included...mine, like Rich's is very close.
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Old 01-26-2009, 01:16 PM   #40
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Having owned a 3/4 ton, 1 ton SRW, and now a 1 ton DRW, I can tell you there are advantages to going up each step of the way. I was most impressed going from an F350 SRW to a F350 DRW in '06. I had made a few trips with the Monty in tow one to Texas and another to Colorado with the SRW. It pulled fine and stopped it well, but when leaving for Texas it was raining fairly heavy and the wind was blowing pretty hard from the west as we headed south down Interstate #29. Watching the trailer slide around on the wet pavement and push the rear of the SRW around a little made us very nervous and when it came time to trade trucks we looked at the DRW. I have not towed in the exact same type of situations like that yet, but have towed in very strong winds that have made the Monty tilt occasionally when passing by farm houses that are close to the road. The DRW did not move and held it's ground no matter how hard the wind tried to push everything else around. If I had it to do over again I would not consider a SRW towing a trailer as big as the Montana line is.
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