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Old 06-01-2018, 12:35 PM   #61
richfaa
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In 2017, Thor was number one in the RV market with a 48% market share. Forest River was second with about 34% of the market, followed by Grand Design and Winnebago with about 3% each. In fiscal year 2017, 71% of the Thor's sales was in towable RVs, 27% in motorized RVs, with 2% in other segments. During that same period 91% of sales were in the United States.

BTW Thor has owned Airstream since 1980
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Old 06-01-2018, 12:52 PM   #62
CaptnJohn
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Originally Posted by richfaa View Post
In 2017, Thor was number one in the RV market with a 48% market share. Forest River was second with about 34% of the market, followed by Grand Design and Winnebago with about 3% each. In fiscal year 2017, 71% of the Thor's sales was in towable RVs, 27% in motorized RVs, with 2% in other segments. During that same period 91% of sales were in the United States.

BTW Thor has owned Airstream since 1980
Winnebago bought Grand Design last year.
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Old 06-01-2018, 05:18 PM   #63
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Just wait, before long all RV Dealers will be either Camping World or Lazy Days, both are buying up dealer ships right and left.
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Old 06-01-2018, 08:58 PM   #64
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Until we have a Japanese outfit start building RV'S we will still have a unit that has been shoddily built yo say the least. (Same as our cars and trucks used to be built) If you get one that has minimal problems then you are one of the lucky ones. Probably should have bought a lotto ticket. If you are like most of the rest of us you get tired of dealing with Keystone and the dealership and just start fixing things correctly yourself as you come to the conclusion that it will at least be done correctly.
Not trying to be negative but I am being honest.

Tom Marty
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Old 06-01-2018, 09:57 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Dam Worker View Post
Until we have a Japanese outfit start building RV'S we will still have a unit that has been shoddily built yo say the least. (Same as our cars and trucks used to be built) If you get one that has minimal problems then you are one of the lucky ones. Probably should have bought a lotto ticket. If you are like most of the rest of us you get tired of dealing with Keystone and the dealership and just start fixing things correctly yourself as you come to the conclusion that it will at least be done correctly.
Not trying to be negative but I am being honest.

Tom Marty
The Japanese is not the answer as transporting a 5er across the pond would be cost prohibitive excluding probable damage in shipping. The answer is within the industry. Dump the piecework pay scale and train people with a real work ethic. Give the employees time to do the job properly and the ability to move a problem off the line until fixed. Those things would add some cost but the saving in warranty payments will offset some of that. Add sales from positive comments and repeat sales and things look even better. Now, not the company or employees give a sh!t as the money rolls in.
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Old 06-02-2018, 03:58 AM   #66
Phil P
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Hi

CaptnJohn

You will find that several of the Japanese vehicles are assembled in the US just like the major US builders. They key word here is “assembled”. The parts like the parts for the US manufacturers are manufactured outside the country.

Ricjfaa

Just like the rest of the builders Thor has purchased Airstream quality has gone downhill as well as the Class A and commercial buss units that Thor build before being purchased by the upper management.
Also “profits” include the principle payments to the finical intuits ‘Debit service” is the interest paid. Touting profits for the period that interest was artificial keep low is not a good indicator.


For background information on y post check the history of Houdaille Industries.

Here is a link https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...=.498a0a871f2e


“When the machine stopped” is a copyrighted book so there is no link provided for it if you are really interested it can be purchased from Amazon.



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Old 06-02-2018, 07:06 AM   #67
richfaa
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One has to ask why the Japanese have not purchases on of the RV companies that have gone out of business and built them here.
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Old 06-02-2018, 07:07 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Phil P View Post
Hi

CaptnJohn

You will find that several of the Japanese vehicles are assembled in the US just like the major US builders. They key word here is “assembled”. The parts like the parts for the US manufacturers are manufactured outside the country.

Ricjfaa

Just like the rest of the builders Thor has purchased Airstream quality has gone downhill as well as the Class A and commercial buss units that Thor build before being purchased by the upper management.
Also “profits” include the principle payments to the finical intuits ‘Debit service” is the interest paid. Touting profits for the period that interest was artificial keep low is not a good indicator.


For background information on y post check the history of Houdaille Industries.

Here is a link https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...=.498a0a871f2e


“When the machine stopped” is a copyrighted book so there is no link provided for it if you are really interested it can be purchased from Amazon.



Phil P
That is all that is done here now ~~~ assemble. Just change method of assembly by anyone. No special skills needed.
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Old 06-02-2018, 07:13 AM   #69
richfaa
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Originally Posted by CaptnJohn View Post
The Japanese is not the answer as transporting a 5er across the pond would be cost prohibitive excluding probable damage in shipping. The answer is within the industry. Dump the piecework pay scale and train people with a real work ethic. Give the employees time to do the job properly and the ability to move a problem off the line until fixed. Those things would add some cost but the saving in warranty payments will offset some of that. Add sales from positive comments and repeat sales and things look even better. Now, not the company or employees give a sh!t as the money rolls in.
The employee does what the company tells them to do. Company sets the work rules not the employee. I do not know what "piecework" means in the RV industry. There are a certain number of unit to be built on any particular day and when that number is reached the day is over. The employees are hourly employees. We have been on that line many times.
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Old 06-02-2018, 08:27 AM   #70
dfb
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Just because Montana is the #1 fifth wheel in sales does not mean it's number one in quality, it means not enough choices.. Using very poor quality parts means very poor quality. I'm a high end buyer. Stereo equpment, Mcintosh, tv, oled.. Ram, LONGHORN.. If it costs 50 more for better carpet, charge me.. if it costs 10.00 more for better long lasting moulding, Charge me.. The money I pay for a product is not defective or cheap money.. Don't rip me off by charging me for low quality parts...id rather throw low quality items in the trash..
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Old 06-02-2018, 08:36 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dam Worker View Post
Until we have a Japanese outfit start building RV'S we will still have a unit that has been shoddily built yo say the least. (Same as our cars and trucks used to be built) If you get one that has minimal problems then you are one of the lucky ones. Probably should have bought a lotto ticket. If you are like most of the rest of us you get tired of dealing with Keystone and the dealership and just start fixing things correctly yourself as you come to the conclusion that it will at least be done correctly.
Not trying to be negative but I am being honest.

Tom Marty
Actually, AMERICANS CAN build great quality products if you can get a darn corporation out!..We made everything here...once share holders are more important than the customers thats the end of quality.. DISNEYLAND is a perfect example..Exremely high ticket prices.. KOA is another. High priced..The shareholders dont buy the products.The. Customers do..
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Old 06-02-2018, 03:10 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by CaptnJohn View Post
Winnebago bought Grand Design last year.
and to be honest I have talked to many GD owners of either the Reflection model that competes with the MHC/Cougar or the Solitute that competes with the Montana, and many of them are seriously unhappy as well so I don’t think there is a clear answer to who makes the best, but more so if the MFG and Dealer stand by your side to help you.

Tough market and the consumer has to be on top of their game to get stuff corrected and feel the pains of spending the money and not getting anywhere.

Doesn’t matter who you buy it from MFG wise but who gives you the service and support you need. Most dealers do not have qualified techs, so IMHO I have learned to fix most issues on my own butI am Mechanically inclined a lot of folks aren’t so they struggle.
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Old 06-05-2018, 09:53 PM   #73
rgparker57
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Hello Rmorris.. I purchased a new 2018 montana high country 330 rl.. Love the floor plan.. However we have had over 25 problems and 20 or them are workman ship related.. You can read my posts.. Had three new problems today.. More pieces coming off on the inside of the coach that were not installed properly.. And today we had the first rain and the skylight in the bathroom is leaking.. Now the air conditioner cycles off and on ever 15 seconds.. If you purchase get a 10 year extended warranty..
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Old 06-05-2018, 10:01 PM   #74
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Quality workmanship

Problems are continuing to mount up.. A/C cycles on and off every 15 seconds. Have tried all the fixes.. Auto fan, low fan, high fan, 50 amp with proper cord, the coach is new...

The skylight in the bathroom is leaking

The plastic tile on the wall is pealing off

Additional fascia has come off.


Thanks
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Old 06-07-2018, 02:21 PM   #75
dfb
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Originally Posted by rgparker57 View Post
Problems are continuing to mount up.. A/C cycles on and off every 15 seconds. Have tried all the fixes.. Auto fan, low fan, high fan, 50 amp with proper cord, the coach is new...

The skylight in the bathroom is leaking

The plastic tile on the wall is pealing off

Additional fascia has come off.


Thanks
Have ac charge checked by hvac person, leaks come from top. Check caulking.,reglue tiles..screw the facia with screws.. id help if you were close..
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Old 06-07-2018, 06:49 PM   #76
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dfb-- In response to your comment about having the A/C charge checked by an hvac person-- the A/C units on rv's especially on fivers and tow campers are not rechargeable or being able to be checked for charge. There is no port to check the system like there is on s&b systems.

rgparker57-- Since your unit is a 2018 model and still under warranty, why haven't you taken it back to your dealer to use the warranty for any problems? That is what the warranty is for. Unfortunately, there are dealers that like to sell units but do not want to repair units because Keystone does not pay the dealership their outrageous charges for repairing or taking care of problems that arise. There is one specific company that is nationwide that likes to do this with exceptions in some areas the country. IF the dealer would just do a good PDI on the units when they come in and not just set it on the lot for sale we would not have near the problems that come up when we purchase it. A REALLY good PDI by the buyer is a must and the buyer must insist that the items found that are wrong in the PDI be fixed or they do not accept the unit.
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Old 06-07-2018, 08:00 PM   #77
CaptnJohn
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Ask the AC manufacturer for a list of local authorized repair centers/mobile. Forget the dealer.
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