Lithium Batteries - Montana Owners Club

scattershot · 01-31-2021, 06:38 PM

Searched the topic, but the entries were two years old. Does anyone have recent experience with lithium batteries? What amp/hour rating did you get, and was it a direct replacement for your lead/acid setup? 2006 Montana 2955 RL, 135 watt solar panel,on the roof.

Thanks.

kowbra · 01-31-2021, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scattershot

Searched the topic, but the entries were two years old. Does anyone have recent experience with lithium batteries? What amp/hour rating did you get, and was it a direct replacement for your lead/acid setup? 2006 Montana 2955 RL, 135 watt solar panel,on the roof.

Thanks.

I think most of the recent discussions about lithium may have been buried in threads more focused on "solar".
We decided to go with the Montana factory Super Solar Flex package and the lithium batteries are made by the parent company of Battleborn Batteries. BB are popular and get good reviews online, so I would recommend looking at them.

As to sizing, the limiting factor is that you have only 135 watts of solar charging. Your panel will put out max about 8-10 amps in ideal sunlight. So in the ideal 5-6 hours of full charging you might add ~50ah of total charging. You could start with a single 50ah or maybe 100ah lithium. While you could go with larger batteries, you would struggle to fully charge them.

Do you have a generator? Then you could charge a larger bank and use more generator.
Do you plan to upgrade your solar panels? Then again you could then add more battery and the solar power to charge it.

Lastly, and perhaps most important, what are your goals? Running a few lights and a couple outlets for a day or two is very different than running all of the outlets and the furnace or AC while boondocking for a week with no generator.

Hope that is a good start, but fire away if you have more questions.

Brad

scattershot · 01-31-2021, 07:53 PM

Thank you.

jetskier · 01-31-2021, 08:11 PM

I sent an email to BBB last week and got a response today...

Quote:

We generally recommend 200-250 solar watts per Battle Born Battery if you are looking to charge from 0-100% in a single day.

Quote:

You can add batteries to your battery bank up to 2 years after initial purchase so you can start with 2 and add later. However I recommend 3 batteries with a 3000W inverter charger as 2 batteries is often not enough to power that unit. When it comes to Air Conditioners you can get 1 to 1.5 hours of continuous runtime per battery and soft starts are highly recommended.

kowbra · 01-31-2021, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetskier

I sent an email to BBB last week and got a response today...

Thanks for adding that!

I assume when they say 200-250 watts per battery, they mean for a 100ah battery?
That would seem to match the SSF package; it comes with 1200 watts of solar and 510ah of battery.

Brad

scattershot · 01-31-2021, 09:39 PM

That’s very helpful, thanks. We generally don’t use the AC, since we live in Colorado and camp up high most of the time. For our limited use, looks like the costs outweigh the benefits.

jetskier · 01-31-2021, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kowbra

Thanks for adding that!
I assume when they say 200-250 watts per battery, they mean for a 100ah battery?
That would seem to match the SSF package; it comes with 1200 watts of solar and 510ah of battery.

I inquired about the GC2s since I have the lead acid versions now and the four battery poly box. So they'd be the 12V, 100AH variants.

rames14 · 01-31-2021, 10:30 PM

Scatttershot, we also live in Colorado. First, look at what you have for lead acid amp hours. You can only discharge about 40% (they say 50% but you are already below 12V by that time). We have currently (4) golf cart batteries at about 200 ah usable. We also have ordered a unit with Super Solar. At 5,000 to 10,000 we also don’t use AC. I found about 4 to 6 hours of TV, a pot of coffee and the furnace, fridge etc. had me looking to run the generator by 8:00 am. With 510 ah of lithium, we should be in good shape. So, if 200 ah is getting you by, maybe you want to add a second panel and 2 100ah lithiums. One issue, especially camping in Colorado, lithium’s don’t like to charge when it’s cold. The Dragonfly batteries in the Super Solar have built in heaters. I do not believe the 100 ah ones do. Good luck.

rjdreyer · 02-01-2021, 06:55 AM

Battleborn sells heating pads for the batteries for cold weather operation if you really need them.

rames14 · 02-01-2021, 07:15 AM

Battery location and camping style will determine the need. I assumed but did not check if they had heating solutions at Battleborn. Where you locate batteries will have a big influence on need. I brought it up because most people will tend to put them in the normal location for lead acid batteries. That area is not heated. Of course, if you only camp in the south you may never have an issue. But, being from Colorado it is a concern for the OP.

Ren · 02-01-2021, 07:44 AM

I will probably go a simple route of adding some insulation under them like some closed cell foam and wrapping them in heating pads when I decide to go lithium.

https://www.amazon.com/Facon-Holding...2189178&sr=8-2

Just will wire these on a simple switch.

Being in Fl, we probably wont need to use the pads much, but if we travel somewhere cold Id like the option.

scattershot · 02-01-2021, 08:48 AM

Thanks for all the help. I don’t think converting to lithium would be worth the price to me, but I appreciate all the comments.

jcurtis934 · 02-01-2021, 09:44 AM

The other factor that everyone overlooked is the year of your trailer. Lithium batteries require a different charge profile, so you would also have to change out the converter to one that meet their charge requirements.

scattershot · 02-01-2021, 09:49 AM

Yeah, the trailer is an ‘06, so,it’s getting a little long in the tooth, as they say. Doesn’t sound like a practical conversion at this time.

Slow Hand · 02-01-2021, 11:23 AM

You have to park in direct sunlight for solar to work. It's a nice idea but I would much rather have a generator onboard. I am not a fan of attaching anything to the roof. Less holes means less chance of a leak. I wonder if solar is cheaper than a genset. I am sure a generator is more cost effective. What if you happened to have some low hanging trees scratch the glass or plastic. I am just not a fan of something that only works in the day. They don't work on a cloudy day. Generator works anytime you need it to with proper maintenance. And you dont have to go up on the roof to check.

scattershot · 02-01-2021, 11:51 AM

We have a generator, too, but I wouldn’t be without my solar.

kowbra · 02-01-2021, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scattershot

We have a generator, too, but I wouldn’t be without my solar.

Agreed, solar is my preference by far.
We do bring along our portable generator "just in case" but it gets very little use.
When we are off grid the last thing I want is the noise and smell of a genny. And for those who like their gennies, please don't park close to me

Brad

Daryles · 02-01-2021, 01:25 PM

Something to think about (I am).
Add a DC to DC charger. You get a charge via your 7 way cable but it is limited.
For example I have an F350 with dual 200A alternators. The 7 way charging circuit has a 30A fuse.
I am looking at adding a Renogy 60A DC to DC charger. This will help recharging my 552Ah lithium batteries along with my solar (400W) when boondocking for a few days.
However, if want to run Air conditioning, I will need to run the generator while boondocking.

kowbra · 02-01-2021, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daryles

Something to think about (I am).
Add a DC to DC charger. You get a charge via your 7 way cable but it is limited.
For example I have an F350 with dual 200A alternators. The 7 way charging circuit has a 30A fuse.
I am looking at adding a Renogy 60A DC to DC charger. This will help recharging my 552Ah lithium batteries along with my solar (400W) when boondocking for a few days.
However, if want to run Air conditioning, I will need to run the generator while boondocking.

I think that is a good idea, and I have been looking into that.
I only have a single 220amp alternator so not sure if that matters. I do think it's a good idea though.

Brad

Creeker · 02-01-2021, 10:26 PM

I have a Renogy 40 amp DC to DC charger waiting to be installed when winter breaks. Along with two Micro Air easy starts for the A/C's.

Majority of our dry camping is in heavily treed national forest lands in the east. The Kryptonite to Super Solar.

We have no choice but to use alternative methods for recharging. We chose 120 amps of converter/chargers and additional 30 amp adjustable power supply for top charging. All powered by our Honda 3000 Genny. We can get back to 85-90% SOC in a hurry.

We do have a 200 watt portable solar panel system for the rare occasion the sun shines within 30' of our camper.

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