8.1 Allison? - Page 2 - Montana Owners Club

richfaa · 01-23-2006, 12:49 PM

I understand where you are coming from Dave..been there done that.If that 7.3 is agood motor for a good price it may be a good deal. See my PM...

BigAl52 · 01-23-2006, 02:52 PM

Dave
I have pushed Cummins down the road for 30 plus years. Just some more points for you to ponder. Last May Dolly and myself bought a 2003 Dodge here locally for about 27000.00 with 46000 miles on it. Because Cummins like I believe Ford and Chevy do also, have 100,000 mile warranty's on them I was not worried about the used diesel. The Dodge warranty is transferable and I would think that the others are also. As far as maintenace goes Cummins says you can go 15000 miles on regular oil changes. I know where I work they go 30000 miles on some of the new motors with oil changes and we have very little problems. If you really want to protect your truck use synthetic. I have no favorites amoung tow vehicles they all have there good and bad points. If there was a perfect tow vehicle we would all be driving the same thing. Happy Trails Al

dsprik · 01-23-2006, 05:23 PM

Thanks, Al! Good points. Good humor at the end!

sreigle · 01-24-2006, 05:43 PM

Someone mentioned since diesel costs a bit more than gasoline that the mileage difference is pretty much a wash. 'Taint so. My diesel gets 40% better mileage, towing and solo, than did my gas V10 tow vehicle. Until diesel costs, consistently, 40% more than gasoline, diesel is the cheaper in terms of overall fuel cost. Where we are now gasoline is 2.199 and diesel just went up from 2.230 to 2.299.

Also, so long as the truck is in good shape at tradein time, you should get back the extra up front costs at tradein. Oil changes are more expensive on my diesel than on the V10 simply because this diesel takes 15 quarts of oil. I went from changing oil every 3k miles on the V10 to 5k miles on the diesel so my annual oil change costs are just about the same. But only because I extended the time on the oil. The truck has never come off the full mark on the dipstick even at 5k miles with lots of towing.

However, I'd never suggest someone buy a diesel for any of those reasons if the other factors dictate gas is better for them. And there are legit reasons why gas is better for some than is diesel. Just my opinion, though.

Carol, we ran out of the 3yr/36,000 mile warranty at about the 12 month mark. Thankfully the diesel has a 5 yr/ 100,000 mile on the engine. We'll hit that at about the 33 month mark.

dsprik · 01-24-2006, 05:56 PM

I discount any difference in diesel/gas prices. Kinda like the weather... it will change. Also not worried about oil changes specifically, but I would be concerned a LARGE difference, if any, in overall maintenance between gas and diesel engines.

However, my MAIN concern is MONTHLY BANK PAYMENTS. ie, Can I get a workable gas tv that would be a CHEAPER monthly pmt for the next two years or so, before I can upgrade, so that I can focus my money on my Montana??? This is THE critical question I need answered. Don't know how I got people off on gas mileage/oil changes, etc? I just meant to bring them up in general terms only... didn't mean to have the thread focus on it like it did. Sorry.

Montana Sky · 01-24-2006, 10:27 PM

Dave,
I am the one who got the subject on the MPG and oil changes. Sorry to drift from your original question, but the reason I brought it up was that is the main difference between the Duramax (diesel) and the 8.1L (gas). Overall the service requirements are pretty much the same. Your transmission, differentials, belts, fluids (excluding oil), pumps, and so on all have the same service requirements for both motors. When it comes to cost analysis the two biggest factors are fuel economy and service (oil changes). The 8.1L is going to tow your new 3400RL just fine in my opinion, and if the cheaper payment is going to make things easier for a year or two, by all means go for it. I would take a look around your current area and price out a 2 or 3 yr old 8.1L gas truck with however many miles you think you would put on the truck in two years and see what they are selling for. This will give you an idea of what and how much depreciation you can expect in two years from now when you trade in for a diesel, if you so choose at that time.

Wrenchtraveller · 01-25-2006, 01:43 AM

Right now it is truly a buyer's market and Ford V10s and Chev 8.1 gassers a couple of years old are selling for reasonable prices. Either one of these engines will pull your Montana just fine. After towing with diesels for 11 years,. I am really enjoying my 05 V10 and I am finding my fuel use is around 20% higher than my 04 6.0 and about 30% higher than my 95 and 2000 7.3 PSDs.

Many, many people love their 6.0 PSD Fords and have had great luck with them. I was not one of them and my 04 PSD left me stranded along side the road 4 times. There may be another diesel in my future but not another 6.0, Thank you.

Another thing to consider is fuel emissions have changed diesel engines. They used to be reliable work horses that long out lived the vehicles they were bolted into. Now they have components on them that cost as much as a crate gas engine. Price out a new variable pitch turbo for a Ford 6.0 (5000.00 Can) and if you have the misfortune of replacing that out of your own pocket........... well you can kiss the last 4 years fuel savings good bye.

IMO I would not own a new high tech Diesel engine after the warranty runs out. Take care, Don.

richfaa · 01-25-2006, 03:05 AM

Listen to what Dave is telling us..He needs a TV NOW that will pull his new 3400 and that he can afford the MONTHLY payments on.. Make, Model, Year, Motor are not the primary issue here// We completely understand what he is saying as we have been there...done that. Dave although we have the shinny new 05 F-350 Ford we DID NOT get the Tv we would have preferred to get because WE COULD NOT AFFORD IT. We got a good TV that will pull the 3400 anywhere we want to pull it. We did not crunch tons of numbers in terms of cost effectiveness, MPG, cost per mile to operate..because we could not AFFORD to get the most cost effective TV. It does not make any difference that it may/will cost us more money in the long run..We DID NOT have the $ to spend NOW.We got what we could afford to buy and would pull the camper and in 2 or 3 years if things improve we WILL buy again...I am not embarrassed to say that after X plans, rebates, good price for our old TV and RV we still had to spend @ 70K for the Tv and RV and all that goes. with it. Helen and I are in good financial shape,,but we are just ordinary middle class folks and 70K is a BUNCH of $ to us and we did not have it laying around it discretionary funds.As my wise old Dad would say Dave..you gotta do..what you gotta do..

richfaa · 01-25-2006, 05:45 AM

Dave..just for your information..Was at our Local Honda/Chevy dealer today having maint done on my Honda Civic. Roamed around his used truck lot..For your compairisons...there wer 2 2003 Chevy, 3500,CC, LB Duallys, Silverado's. Both nearly identically Equiped..One had a sun roof other did not one had 62K miles the other 56k miles One was diesel one was 8.1L

The 8.1L was 21,675 the diesel was 28,195...They were sending them off to the auction today. Salesperson said they had been on the lot for awhile with no takers. Gas hoggen big trucks are not doing to well around here. The thought came to mind..don't know about your area but this area (Steel industry, auto Industry, home of 5 Ford plants, was 6 a couple of months ago) is hurting.Is there a auto auction nearby..Know you have a family member who is a salesperson..He might be able to pick up a bargain at a auction. Food for thought.. Used Big ole fuel hoggen trucks...the kind we like, Diesel/Gas are not selling very well around here and I'll Bet Mich is not much better..

dsprik · 01-25-2006, 04:57 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Montana Sky

Dave,
I am the one who got the subject on the MPG and oil changes. Sorry to drift from your original question, but the reason I brought it up was that is the main difference between the Duramax (diesel) and the 8.1L (gas). Overall the service requirements are pretty much the same. Your transmission, differentials, belts, fluids (excluding oil), pumps, and so on all have the same service requirements for both motors. When it comes to cost analysis the two biggest factors are fuel economy and service (oil changes). The 8.1L is going to tow your new 3400RL just fine in my opinion, and if the cheaper payment is going to make things easier for a year or two, by all means go for it. I would take a look around your current area and price out a 2 or 3 yr old 8.1L gas truck with however many miles you think you would put on the truck in two years and see what they are selling for. This will give you an idea of what and how much depreciation you can expect in two years from now when you trade in for a diesel, if you so choose at that time.

Sorry, Dave... didn't mean to pick on you... I was talking in general terms. If you still feel bad... maybe something that possibly a cash donation could help to cheer you up??? I'll give you my address. I accept checks...

Seriously, this is just the kind of info I was looking for. Opinions from people who have "been there". This is very helpful.

dsprik · 01-25-2006, 05:09 PM

Dave, Rich and Don, thanks alot, guys! I'm feeling a lot better about the possiblity of a gas doing the job... for now. This is good news for our checkbook while we are getting underway. Unexpected costs, even though MOC will eliminate many surprises, are something that I am trying to prepare a little buffer, financially, for what I'm sure will be a few extras that will pop up at the last minute.

This sure is a great forum! Thanks again, guys!

BigAl52 · 01-27-2006, 02:20 PM

Don and others;
I would like to make just one more comment and then I will let this alone. Dave I to went off the course a little and I realize you are trying to keep your TV payment to where you can deal with it. I would only say that in Fords case they changed an entire engine while trying to meet epa requirements. I think this really hurt Ford as when you make major changes like that you are bound to have some bugs to work on. Cummins and Iszuzu(who makes the Duramax)are still using the same engine and only changed what they need to get by emissions. I don't blame you Don for feeling the way you do about the hi-tech diesels but the old designs are not having trouble with the changes. Cummins uses a variable speed turbo and there is no trouble with these to date. The only sacrifices so far is the newer engines are not getting the pre-EGR fuel mileage. My comments here are only for informative purpose's and not at all meant to start any kind of disagreement. Happy Trails Al

Wrenchtraveller · 01-28-2006, 01:24 PM

Al, I agree with you 100% and I only wish you could get a Ford F350 with a Cummins. You can get a
Ford F650 with one so even Ford knows what a great engine the Cummins is. I bought my 05 V10 not because it was cheaper than the PSD, it was the only Ford engine I wanted to take a chance with
after my experience with my 04 PSD. Ford is changing Diesels again in 07 and going to a 6.4 dual turbo with fixed vanes in both turbos.
The variable vane turbo is gone.

I wanted the Crew Cab with a long box and you still can't get that in a Dodge. The Mega Cab only comes with a SB and the Quad Cab is the best extended cab on the market but not a true Crew Cab.

I learned to drive on a 55 Ford pickup and call me brand loyal to the point of being stupid but I can't bring myself to drive a Chev even though I think the Duramax-Allison is an incredible truck, it's just not for me. Take care, Don.

dsprik · 01-28-2006, 01:59 PM

Don, I did some research on the Dodge MegaCab. It's not designed for towing large class fifth wheels (none of the Montana line)... not even close. Beautiful truck, though. More room (leg room) in the back than in the front, if you can believe that. But the weight ratings on it are absolutely terrible.

I believe it was designed to ferry work crews back and forth (it would hold 5, 250+ lb construction workers - and still have extra room), along with their personal gear - and MAYBE a couple of cement blocks in the back. And maybe towing a portable gen, but nothing more, for sure. Like I said, My wife and I test drove a new 2006. My wife's first comment about the back was, "Oh my gosh! You could put a bed in the back there (back seat/cargo area)!" Too bad they sacrificed the back bed area - very short. Also, this truck sits up higher than a comparable Ford/GM (seemed like a LOT higher - had the impression that I was driving a HDT - seriously), which could present a height problem, as mentioned in an earlier thread, towing a 5ver in a semi-level position.

Wrenchtraveller · 01-28-2006, 03:26 PM

Dave if you are buying an 06 3400RL you would be better served with a 1 ton truck and the 3400RL looks like a beautiful unit but it has a pin weight that will put most 3/4 tons over their GVWR.

dsprik · 01-28-2006, 05:43 PM

I agree Don. But trying to find a good used 1 ton diesel CC 4x4 is like trying to get a pig to fly (where the heck did I come up with that??). They are terribly hard to find. I think that the 3400 has one of the lightest pin weights, for some reason. That will help, but a good 1 ton would be great - if I can find one.

BigAl52 · 01-29-2006, 03:15 AM

Don
As I mentioned to someone there is no perfect TV or we all would have one. Seems to me that one plays with the room in the cab while the other plays with the length of the box. Dodge's interiors don't have the quality of GM or Ford and the Allison Transmission in the GM is as strong for them as the Cummins is for the Dodge. Duramax engines they say is a good motor and has run in Iszuzu delievery trucks for years. But I'm to the point were I will not ever buy a new truck again because for me it makes no sense to take the large hit you take when it goes of the new lot. There are to many good used truck dealers around here to buy new. Just my opinion and everybody needs to do what the are comfortable with. Happy Trails Al

richfaa · 01-29-2006, 09:53 AM

My perfect truck..Ford 1 ton CC,LB, Dually , Cummins diesel, allison Xmittion..I could not find one of those anywhere.. I got a Ford because I got it on the X plan and 2500.00 rebate..Don't trust the 6.0PSD..Would have got the Same truck Chevy but could not get the Employee plan at the time.. Such is life...

HomeOnTheRoad · 01-29-2006, 03:01 PM

3400RL has almost the lightest pinweights of all Montanas according to the Montana specifications. It should be fine with a 3/4 ton truck as far as pinweight.

dsprik · 01-29-2006, 06:53 PM

Thanks, HomeOnTheRoad. I'll probably end up here shortly with a 3/4 ton. Makes me feel a little better. I know a 1 ton is better, but if you know your limitations, I believe a 3/4 ton will do the job.

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