High performance lesson

[trukdoc]

I have seen it so many times sitting at the counter at the speed shop and some guy comes in with specs to components that his buddies dreamed up or pulled from a magazine and maxes out his credit card. In short it is the biggest cam,intake,carb/ injector and whatever else he has dreamed of. Bolts it all together and typically makes a lot of noise but performance is minimal, probably less than he had.
So what is high performance? Maximizing efficiency while being able to keep it together!

So we start with a factory engine that has been engineered to do a specified job within a certain parameter. These parameters are designated for customer to do what it is they are buying the vehicle for. In our case a truck to pull our RV's. It could be a sedan or sports car just as easily.

Engine building starts with what the task is going to be. Pulling, longevity or peel your skin back fast. So now I go to the speed shop buy the biggest gizmo's I can and bolt it together...right! Wrong! I must determine my needs such as cruise RPM, acceleration, and pulling torque. To come to this number I need to know tire revolution per mile, differential ratio, final transmission ratio and finally converter stall speed. Modifications in these areas may need to be made to achieve maximum results as well.

So for ease of numbers lets take the standard 350 Chevy Small Block. I want to be able to tow heavy loads, hold hills while towing and most of all be able to tow distances without break downs. Chevy built a good engine from the factory BUT I am now asking more than factory specs. I must now decide the BEST components for the job I want 13:1 compression pistons, more compression more power right! Well if we want to be stuck with racing gas to run on this would be OK except in REALITY we need to use pump gas. So OK we are down to about 8.5:1 compression give or take. Same thing with cam. A cam is chosen by how much air the engine has the ABILITY to move. Intake capacity, Piston compression, valve size, head runner flow, and finally exh capacity. I do all the figures and decide the best configuration by spec. More choices the condenced version is QUALITY. For example a timing chain, a stock replacement vs: double roller or even gear drive the list goes on. Heavy forged rods, forged or hyperutetic pistons, ARP fasteners for extra streangth. Now that "everything has been matched to work together", the quality of parts needed to last a couple hundred thousand miles and the small parts to hold it together. I know a lot has been left out but you get the idea. Now you have an engine to go down the road with. The principle is identical and even more so with the Diesels. Only difference is fuel type.

So now with all this in mind, how can you simply install a chip that only boosts fuel output and modifies timing to gain HIGH PERFORMANCE and expect it to stay together. Now with ceramic coated forged pistons, extensive head work and expanding the capabilities of both intake and exhaust systems and oil cooling mabe a chip will do some good. But remember a absolute rule of relativity...everything will break at its weakest point.

So you see I am not a hater of performance chips, I am against the folks that sell these products and tell you this is all you need for mega HP. You are told it will not harm your engine. You for being naive enough to believe it. And when the crap hits the fan YOU are left holding the bag wanting to know who is going to stand behind their product and who is liable, and you do not want to hear it is you.

[madeforeachother]

Very well put! I hope this will be read before the next sucker maxes out his credit card in hopes of a super vehicle.

[Glenn and Lorraine]

Thank you Rick!
I have been against these performance chips right from the start as I was pretty sure the engines were not built for this pushing beyond factory specs.
You would think that your informed explanation would finally put an end to this subject but it ain't gonna happen. Those that have the chip or reprogramming will totally disagree with you and their basis for the argument is they were told it won't hurt the engine and most importantly they have had their rig chipped for years without a problem. Even if they do believe every word you printed, their ego will not allow them to say they made a mistake.

[stiles watson]

The other side of the coin. Manufacturers build to the safe side of capacities, not wanting to risk. If it were not for the "performance madmen" stretching the limits, we would still be driving Model A Fords. I just don't have to be a tester.

[Cat320]

Our stock diesels will very easily haul any Montana made...why risk changing them at all?

[padredw]

Thanks, Trukdoc, for giving me the technical reasons to support what I have always felt and acted on: that I probably don't need to tinker with something as complicated as the combination of elements that have been put together to make up my tow vehicle. In the first place I have never felt the need to do so with a vehicle that performs as well as the one I'm driving now. I have never felt any lack of speed or power in the 75000 miles I've been driving my present pickup.

But you are speaking from a much greater level of experience and competence in the field and that gives me even greater confidence and confirmation of what I thought to be true.

[tom41]

I guess maybe all this has come up with my posting about the air intake mod i did on here. I dont have a chip in my truck, My truck does quiet well as stock, but there is always room for improvement over the manufacture spec's. Most already know that 95% of what the auto manufactures builds has come from hotrodders, race drivers, and builders of custom autos. I'm not into racing anymore, tho I have done my share back in the 50's an 60's, at Beech Bend in Bowling Green ky, and also on the country roads of ky , tn, va. , I am interested in improving any auto in doing better . I do know for certain, that a better air intake, bigger exhausts {then stock} and gauges WILL NOT harm a tow truck. You ever seen a 18 wheeler with 2 " exhaust, or a "hidden" air intake, or "no" guages to know what his diesel is doing? I'm sorry if I cause anyone to get so upset over my posting my modification of a simple air intake. It wont happen again!! thanks

[trukdoc]

Tom 41 you need to reread my post on your thread. You did a good job. Stayed with a known good filter and simply increased the breathing capacity. I am cautious of some of the "Performance" air filters out there due to lack of printed specs on them other than their claims of increased mileage and performance. I am not against hot rodding, there is a proper way to do it and doing it part way will cost more in the long run. Paying yearly $40k for my truck I am in no hurry to ruin my INVESTMENT. And increasing the breathing capacity from the intake and exhaust will in itself increase mileage and performance and as long as emmission equipment is not tampered with it should not harm factory warranty. And as I have said before any mod you might want to do run past your service manager at the dealer and get their blessing IN WRITEING. There was a point in my business I was trying to get into the performance engines. My experiance is that most want a long warranty and did not want to spend the money to do the job right. There are three things you can expect from any business 1- Price 2-Quality 3-Service, pick any two.

[BigAl52]

A little common sense when using performance chips and some research will go a long ways towards not going back for warranty issues. Granted there are things that do happen but those issues may also come up had nothing been done. There are things that happen regardless of modifications that are made. We all know that these engines are pumped up with more horsepower and torque every year. My 2003 Cummins is 250hp the 2006 was 325 from basically the same engine with some minor changes. The Ford and Chevy engines have done the same thing to stay up with the competition. The guy behind the counter could care less if your engine has a warranty after selling you a chip all he cares about is his bottom line. It's up to you to educate yourself when using one. Just my opinion Al

[skypilot]

I remember reading (and seeing TV shows showing) that all of the major auto makers use racing as a test bed for their products - WHY? Because it stresses the H E double L out of them. They can then take the tested and proven technology and put it into our vehicles, whether street cars or trucks. When they give us a product, and warranty it, they have a reasonable expectation that the product will last that long (some exceptions of late of course). I think the thing we need to realize is that when we alter what the manufacturer provided, then we also stand to alter their warranty. If the item breaks because of something I changed, then I should be mature enough to realize that I became my own warranter; however, if my modification had no effect on the item that breaks, then the manufacturer should also be mature enough to warranty the broken item without trying to renig on their side. I hope that made sense. It just bothers me that I can't put something as 'trivial' as an EGT guage into my 2006 Dodge and still have full engine / exhaust warranty because I want to know that I am not over stressing my expensive TV. However, current Dodge policy (at least here) is that I put it in, I pay for any thing connected to that part (which pretty much means the truck in total as far as local Dodge dealer is concerned . Sorry for the rant.

[tom41]

well I gotta say trukdoc is mostly right. If you think you can add 100+ extra ponies to a powertrain that wasn't designed for it than you deserve to have failures and your warranty voided. However saying that the chip or programmer caused the failures is not a true statement, the chip or programmer did exactly what it is suppose to do. So if you use some common sense and perform the necessary supporting mods there is no validity to the the chip or programmer causing such failures. It is the people that don't take the time to learn about their powertrains and simply listen to advertisements in a magzine, that lead to folks like you believing adding a chip or tuner is something negative. I am just tired of hearing blanket statements like " don't add a chip because it will lessen the life of your engine and you will have failures left and right", again yada, yada, yada!!!!
If you don't want to chip your truck, that's perfectly fine, it's your truck, but don't pass on bogus blanket statements, that's all I am saying There are thousands of folks that have chipped their trucks, after performing the supporting mods and haven't experienced one failure!! Wow and the sky didn't fall either!!
To each his own, but I like to give the correct information and let each member decide what is best for them. My truck isnt chip,,,yet,,but if I ever decide to the "mods" are done ! k I'm outta here now lol, just had to give mt 2 cents worth, and I love ya'all
Take Care and thanks

[Frankenstien]

Under the FWIW.. catagorie... 185000 mile chipped...at 40K... still no major issues... just need to know and understand what and how every thing works ... with everything else.

[ols1932]

quote:Originally posted by Frankenstien

Under the FWIW.. catagorie... 185000 mile chipped...at 40K... still no major issues... just need to know and understand what and how every thing works ... with everything else.

Same here. Have had no problems with my Banks Power Pack.

Orv

[Thunderman]

quote:Originally posted by tom41

well I gotta say trukdoc is mostly right. If you think you can add 100+ extra ponies to a powertrain that wasn't designed for it than you deserve to have failures and your warranty voided. However saying that the chip or programmer caused the failures is not a true statement, the chip or programmer did exactly what it is suppose to do. So if you use some common sense and perform the necessary supporting mods there is no validity to the the chip or programmer causing such failures. It is the people that don't take the time to learn about their powertrains and simply listen to advertisements in a magzine, that lead to folks like you believing adding a chip or tuner is something negative. I am just tired of hearing blanket statements like " don't add a chip because it will lessen the life of your engine and you will have failures left and right", again yada, yada, yada!!!!
If you don't want to chip your truck, that's perfectly fine, it's your truck, but don't pass on bogus blanket statements, that's all I am saying There are thousands of folks that have chipped their trucks, after performing the supporting mods and haven't experienced one failure!! Wow and the sky didn't fall either!!
To each his own, but I like to give the correct information and let each member decide what is best for them. My truck isnt chip,,,yet,,but if I ever decide to the "mods" are done ! k I'm outta here now lol, just had to give mt 2 cents worth, and I love ya'all
Take Care and thanks

Well said, Tom 41